Zur`s Wierding

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Gizmo, Apr 28, 2000.

  1. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Okay guys, I think I know what I want to work on for my Nationals (about 7 weeks away).

    Zur`s Wierding
    U3, Enchantment
    Players play with hands face up.
    Whenever any player draws a card any player may pay 2 life to make that player discard that card.

    Wierding screws down Bargain and Replenish stone dead when it hits play - the key is fitting it into a decktype that will support it, and also allow it to beat blue/Stampy etc.
    I have some ideas ticking away at the back of my mind but I`d like to see what you can come up with.

    Remember how to abuse the Wierding:
    :D Cards that return from the graveyard (ie, Nether Spirit, Hammer)
    :D Cards that translate card draws into another resource (ie, Tonic Peddler)
    :D Cards that allow you to draw multiple cards so your opponent cannot stop them all (ie, Magpie).
    :D Cards that allow you to take cards from your library rather than draw cards (ie, Lin Sivvi, Abundance, Temporal Aperture, Academy Rector)
    :D Make as many cards in the deck threats as possible, so they have to stop every card you draw, avoid combo cards.

    And remember that we need to have favourable board/life position when we cast the Wierding. The deck might need to be bi-modal, pursuing a Wierding strategy against Combo + Control, and a different strategy vs Beatdown.
    Deck can be mainly (mono?) blue and make use of Countermagic and Treachery, or can simply splash blue into another colour for the Wierdings.

    Initial contenders:
    Rebel splash Wierding
    Counter-Rebel
    Tinker.dec <:eek:>
    Counter-Negator
    Replenish variant
    W/U Control

    Come on guys - plenty to be working on there!

    [Edited by Gizmo on April 28th, 2000 at 02:08 PM]
  2. Major Crime New Member

    Use Waterfront Bouncer (I think that's the one returns perm's not creaqtures to hand) use in end of oppo's turn on the Weirding. Their is another card which I think does the same but for three blue.
    I've seen this work with a Stasis deck, controller gets a go. No one else does unless they have been top decking land.
  3. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    4x Zur's Weirding
    3x Thieving Magpie
    4x Counterspell
    4x Miscalculation
    3x Rewind
    3x Blockade Runner
    3x Thornwind Faeries
    2x Archivist
    2x Waterfront Bouncer
    4x Fog Bank
    3x Morphling
    3x Energy Field
    20x Island
    2x Saprazzan Skerry

    Energy Field and Fog Bank make for great damage stoppers.
    Waterfront Bouncer makes for a good stall, Thornwind Faeries allow for direct pinging of destruction of X/1 critters.
    Blockade Runner and Morphling serve as your beats; don't be afraid to get rid of every card your opponent draws if you can hit with a Morphling for 5 each turn.
    Archivist and Thieving Magpie offer card-drawing engines.
    Zur's Weirding is the engine of this deck, a pre-emptive counterspell. Between that and the other counterspells, this deck could stand up well against Bargain.
  4. Gryphonclaw New Member

    My knowledge of the Nationals, outside of the fact that they have to do with magic and involve a tourney-like atmosphere, could be painlessly inscribed with a white hot poker in large block letters on the surface of my eyeball. My interest is similar.

    That said, here's some ideas.

    A couple of other cards to consider:
    Memory lapse:This is a good staller early in the game, and can sometimes pretty much get them to skip their turn.
    Time ebb: Zur's Wierding will likely appear too late to deal with some of those fat greenies, this'll put them back under your control, likewise, it can buy you a turn if used right. However this may not be a legal card.

    I like the idea of blue white control. With some decent life gaining out of white, as well as it's quick stalling capability, you would be most likely to last long enough to take control with the wierding.
  5. Captain Caveman New Member

    Will Spiritual Focus and Zur's Weirding work
    together? Wouldn't it be a forced discard.

    Who "controls" the ability?

    I was thinking some kind of Replentish hybrid
    might work. Assuming the SF will trigger.

    Just a thought.
    Caveman
  6. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Major Crime:
    Temporal Adept, not Waterfront Bouncer. I think that it`s not quite good enough with Zur`s, although it`s fine with Stasis like you said. With Zur`s it takes 7 mana to cycle the Wierding, not 5, and then only so I can stop them drawing a few good spells, whereas the Stasis deck completely locks it`s opponent down making the investment of 5 mana worthwhile.

    GryphonClaw:
    Although this is a deck for nationals, and I am a serious player, this deck will also be uber-rogue tech. The rogue-est deck, in fact, since Roger Rogue`s Really Big Red Book Of Rogueness.
    This means that I will get far more good advice here at the CPA, where people are likely to have been using Zur`s, than I am from the tourney sites, where few people even know it`s reprinted.

    Captain Caveman:
    Nope, althogh they pay life, the Wierding is yours and you control the effect, just as you control the discard from Scandalmonger when they use it.
    Nice idea, though.

    My first run-through.
    I`m going to go with the Tinker variant idea, and see where it gets us.
    Pros
    - Speed
    - Power
    - Existing archetype
    Cons
    - Typically few threats, means little synergy with Wierding
    - If it`s an existing archetype why is nobody playing it? Probably that means it`s not very good. Does the Wierding help it beat the decks it loses to?
    - Is it consitent?

    3 Zur`s Wierding
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Voltaic Key
    3 Morphling
    3 Masticore
    4 Counterspell
    1 Karn
    3 Thran Dynamo
    3 Temporal Aperture
    2 Confiscate
    2 Mishra`s Helix
    1 Phyrexian Processor
    3 Tinker
    2 Phyrexian Colossus
    (37)
    Hey - it builds itself!
    3 Faerie Conclave
    3 Dust Bowl
    4 Crystal Vein
    13 Island
    (60)

    Now I think I went a little crazy with the old threats count there. Morphling + Masticore + Colossus + Processor + Karn + Conclave!

    A missing ingredient is lifegain, normally superfluous but key to a Wierding deck. I see no real reason not to go with ol'reliable - Fountain Of Youth. Usually a single Fountain measn you can use Wierding to deny every threat card of your opponent`s. Although you only gain a single lifepoint each turn and Wierding costs two to use you can expect 1/3 (usually more) of your opponent`s cards to be land, and so that reduces the overall per turn cost of Wierding to 1.36, and then it only takes a few cards from your opponent that you do not need to stop to reduce that to 1.00 each turn. Even if they are beatdown and so have a high threat ratio you can usually use the life you already have to hold onto the Wierding until you get a threat and win the game.
    I also feel kind of dependent on my Masticore for creature defence, which sucks because Masticore + Wierding IS NOT A COMBO!

    -2 Colossus
    -1 Masticore
    -1 Morphling
    +1 Fountain Of Youth
    +3 Somnophore

    Cards they have to pay life to stop you drawing, assuming board parity and Wierding in play:
    3 Somnophore
    2 Morphling
    2 Masticore
    3 Temporal Aperture
    1 Phyrexian Processor
    3 Tinker
    1 Karn
    2 Confiscate
    4 Counterspell
    1 Fountain Of Youth
    3 Faerie Conclave
    (Maybe)
    2 Helix
    3 Dust Bowl
    (Total: 26/+5)

    That`s a pretty high count, I`m happy with that.

    So how will it probably matchup:
    Vs Bargain
    Drop Wierding is a win, early Helix is a win. Should be favorable matchup and I have a good sideboard.

    Vs Replenish
    Drop Wierding is a win unless they are holding Replenish already, might have to switch to a strategy of using Wierding to deny land in order to stop them hitting 4 mana if they do hold Replenish. Drop Helix is a win unless they already have Seal in play. Should be a favorable matchup.

    Vs Stompy
    Obviously depends on their precise variant. Blastoderm would be a problem, but the Somnophores are VStrong in this matchup. SB would have Hibernation and make it easy to Helix-Lock them in games 2+3.

    Vs WWeenie
    VTough matchup as they have core Disenchant and Helix and Wierding are negated by the Rebel search ability. SB in mass Treachery + Dominate? Or do we just concede this matchup as an auto-lose and not waste SB slots. If we get Masticore/Somnophore running we have a chance - but they ARE my only chance.

    Thoughts?
    I`ve never played Tinker decks before, what have I forgotten. Is there a terrible basic flaw in this list that I am missing?
  7. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    If the opp. already plays with his hand revealed, would'nt the artifact -(what is its name, scrying mirror ?, scrying glass ? or somethig) where you guess the number of cards of 1 color in your opp hand and get to draw them if you are correct - be good ?
    if you get to draw 2 to 5 cards the opp will have to pay max to remove all potential threats or letting some go through.
    in worst case you pay 2 life per turn but he much more ....

    What about a U/B deck that combines discard too for total control of its hand ?

    in extended definitly good with squee/survival, but I guess that is off the question.

    What about in a green elf type of deck with
    the acolytes, some plow under maybe pattern of rebirth, yavimaya granger, poachers and stuff ??
    although I know G/U is not an easy combination.

    I mean it seems that tinker is good, especially in the first matchup, but once the opponent knows what you try to do he might stop you too by stopping you getting tinker in hand.

    oh well, just a few ideas on top of my feeble mind ....

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