You DONT have to use Trained Armadon/Silt Crawler anymore!

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by FoundationOfRancor, Sep 14, 2001.

  1. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...looks like Flashback isn't gonna be as over-costed as everyone may thought it would. In Call of the Heard, it's very, very reasonable. The card itself, like mentioned, is very playable. I can see even 4x of this card being played. The Flashback makes it really great, having a double duty against stuff like Black removal, burn, and Wrath of God. Bounce makes this card not so great...but still, it's playable.
  3. theorgg Slob

    Y'know, I thought that someof the Kicker cards screamed "PLOY, MOTHAFROGGERBITMAP!" with things like Kavu "3/2" Chicken whose a 4/3 for 5R when you kick 'em that can't block.

    Now we've got a VERY good 3/3 generator(two 3/3s for 7 Ain't bad at all, 'specially since it's not all at once.)

    But then again, look at Kavu Titan. Let's draw some(admittedly incomplete) comparisons.

    Common sorcery: R for 2 damage, 5R for flashback.
    Common Kicker critter: 3/2 for 2R, 5R for a 4/3, neither version that blocks.

    Rare Flasher: 2G, 3/3, 2G w/ 3G echo for Staang with -0/-1.
    Rare Kicker: Grizzly Bear or 5/5 Trampler for five.

    :confused:

    Well, y'know, that "raketeering" lawsuit somwhat fits, it does seem... freaky..
  4. Apollo Bird Boy

    Well, it's a good card. If I go to the prerelease and get one, I'll be happy.

    But as for Orgg's argument, I totally agree. That's why I haven't bought cards in the past many sets. The rares just seem to be strictly better than a common counterpart 9 times out of 10. I thought the idea was for the rare cards to be the more complex ones. At least, that's the idea they fed us to justify them. But anymore, rares most often seem to be rackets to force people to buy more cards. Merf.
  5. Dead CPA thread-killer

    I like it a lot, partly for the ease of casting in this crazy multicoloured world we'll be left with in the new standard, but also because it hopefully indicates a whole cycle of token-generating cards that will make threshold more viable- by making a token and dumping a card in the grave you get your permanent and your graveyard filler in one hit. If threshold turns out to be awful then you can still launch it out of the graveyard for another hillgiant.

    Rare seems about right when you consider that a 3/3 for 1GG is common, a 3/3 for 2G would presumably be uncommon and thus 3/3 for 2G plus ability of some sort weighs in at rare. Whilst vanilla creatures aren't spectacularly exciting, that doesn't mean i want this to be uncommon and floating around in multiples at the prerelease.
  6. Apollo Bird Boy

    Dead: what you just said is what I object to. I don't like the idea that something should be rare because it is better. While it is important to consider Sealed Deck and the Prerelease and everything, the game is ultimately about building a deck from your cards and playing it. Making rares flat-out better than commons and uncommons punishes newer players and those with less money to spend, and will ultimately turn them off.
  7. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    That is pretty much why I stopped buying cards. The last box I purchased for myself was Nemesis and before that was Urza's Destiny. Rares are becoming more and more Savannah Lions compared to Scarred Puma. The entire reason behind this is tournament play. While playing in a tournament can be fun, this game is just too money driven. (BIG SURPRISE THERE!) The biggest exception to this so far is Blastoderm and I have to say, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR NOT SCREWING THE LITTLE GUY, WOTC on that one. I have enough Blastoderms after a box and a half to give them away to new players (and we all know most new players love big fatties). To this day, I still only own 1 Ernham Djinn.

    I think I'm just annoyed that so much emphasis is placed in Limited tournaments. But again, WOTC is out to make money and they have slowed the game down tremendously to bow to the wishes of the masses. Now if only they would make the cards easier to get for all of us! I'm still dying to play with Moxen in my 5-Color Magic deck.

    -Kirsin

    Anyone near Dayton, OH play 5-Color?
  8. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Agreed. The rare focus is getting annoying. With my resources, it's yet to become a serious problem, but I can see it reaching that point soon. Nonetheless, I'll keep trying, because I'm friggin' addicted. :)
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yeah, but aren't people (I know one on the CPA) glad that Blastoderm's rotating out? What good is a common if it's "overpowered" and people are glad to see it gone?

    Unless it's just that one person... :)
  10. EricBess Active Member

    I too disagree with Dead. The overall power level of a card should not ever be determined by rarity. I think for the most part it isn't. In this case, I disagree that this card is strictly better than it's common counterparts.

    What common are you comparing it to? Let's take Silt Crawler as an example. It seems strictly better because 1) You don't have to tap all of your mana if you cast it early and 2) You get a second creature in a later turn, even if the first casting were countered.

    Okay, seems strictly better, but there are a couple of things you need to take into consideration.

    1) It is a lot easier to get a creature card back into your hand than a Sorcery.
    2) If you do get that second creature, it is now impossible to get the card back in your hand because it is removed from the game.
    3) If you bouce my Silt Crawler, I can cast it again later.
    4) If you recoil my Silt Crawler and the only card in my hand is (for example) Yawgmoth's Agenda, I can still keep my Agenda.
    5) If you pop a Pernicious Deed for 0, Silt Crawler lives.

    Trust me on this, token creatures are at a huge disadvantage. Not saying it is a bad card. All I'm saying is that I think for the mana cost, it is definely not "strictly better" than Silt Crawler. Personally, I don't think it is a significant enough effect to be a rare. I would have thought it were uncommon had I not seen the rarity.
  11. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I think he was talking about Trained Armodon rather than Silt Crawler.

    Trained Armodon
    1GG
    Creature - Beast(? Elephant?)
    3/3

    This is almost exclusively better than Silt Crawler (except for the cc).
  12. Lotus Mox New Member

    I've read this on another board and found it interesting: Flashback will make Lion's Eye Diamond useful, after all.

    imagine this: 1st turn land, LED, use LED and land for mana and cast Call of the Herd out of the Graveyard!

    THAT'S a first turn 3/3! :eek: :rolleyes:

    I also noticed the trend making rares just more powerful than non-rares, this was used in the first sets, where the drawback was supposedly offset by ante, later the idea was more or less abandoned (e.g. River Boa and many other good commons), but it seems like it was reintroduced in Invasion (although I believe its a side effect of making all the chase cards rare, not really done on purpose)
  13. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    So is "Forest, Rogue Elephant", and that leaves you with 5 other cards to cast still.
  14. Lazaroth New Member

    dont forget that Rogue Elephant makes you sac that forest!
  15. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Situation after Forest, Rogue Elephant:

    3/3 creature in play
    No land on the board
    5 cards in hand

    Situation after Forest, LED, Call:

    3/3 creature in play
    One land on the board
    No cards in hand

    Which is better: One land on the board, or five cards in hand?
  16. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    I like it FoR, its a very balanced card and is a good example of how Flashback can work properly (one of the few).

    Tokens do have obvious drawbacks over creature cards, BUT it still a totally splashable 3/3 for 3 mana which nearly makes it playable on its own (which can't be excluded). The Flashback really makes this card strong. In the graveyard its a big threat. Its uncounterable, its cost is fair, its card & creature advantage, and forces your opponent to time Wraths and Deeds differently. You also shouldn't think of it as 2 3/3s for 7 mana b/c you can have both 3/3s out by turn 4 (turn 3 with an elf).

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