W/U Goes To Hall Of Fame

I

Istanbul

Guest
Heh. You're probably thinking 'You wish!'. Well, Hall of Fame is where I play in M:TG tournaments, so W/U IS going to the Hall of Fame! :)

Now, during my *severely* humiliating defeat at the last tournament I attended with my B/U/G deck (now dismantled), I had the presence of mind to memorize what decks I faced off against. They were:

Match 1: Fires.
Match 2: B/W.
Match 3: Some weird U/B thing.
Match 4: Okay, I remember ALMOST everything I faced. By match 4, I didn't much care. :p

Upon looking around, I found that most of my opponents were playing Fires or W/B, or some variant thereof. There was also a bit of Counter-Rebel, but NO Opposition at all. It is because of that fact that I decided that the time was right for a W/U control deck.

Land
---------
11x Plains
13x Island
2x Coastal Tower

No
-----
4x Meddling "Four Counterspells" Mage
4x Counterspell
4x Absorb
4x Force Spike

I said, No!
---------------------
3x Boomerang
4x Wrath of God
3x Hobble
3x Story Circle

A little help, here?
--------------------------------------
2x Inspiration
2x Opportunity

The 'kill' that doesn't
-----------------------------------------------
3x Millstone

Sideboard
---------------------
1x Hobble
3x Exclude
2x Rout
1x Boomerang
1x Millstone
4x Reprisal
3x Hibernation

Now the explanations.

Q: "Why no Fact or Fiction?"
A: I have no combo. It's really just that simple; odds are that a FoF will lose me a card or two that really would have helped. I want to draw cards, not send them to the graveyard.

Q: "What about Opt?"
A: I only ever find myself using Opt in one of two situations: getting to a key card, or getting to extra land if I'm mana-screwed in my opening hand. Well, there IS no key card in this deck, and with 26 land, I don't see a mana screw coming up.

Q: "Okay, okay. Hobble?! Are you smoking crack?!"
A: Let's see. Shuts down an opposing creature...draws me a card...turns Wrath into a better trade...no.

Q: "And Exclude is in the sideboard *why*?"
A: Fires. Gerrard's Verdict. Vindicate. Other Excludes. Voids. Deeds. Etc. The list of non-creature threat cards goes on and on, and I always find myself needing something that can counter anything.

Q: "What's with Boomerang?"
A: Two words: Desolation Angel. Their Angel somehow gets past my countermagic. I tap two blue mana. Let my land die. Return the Angel to their hand. Sure, neither of us has any land in play...but HE doesn't have an Angel, either! Also useful against opposing Fires and gaters and stuff like that there. Also helpful against opposing Spectral Lynxes, which I can't really safely stop other than Wrath/Circle.

Q: "Fine, fine. One more question. Reprisal?"
A: Two mana, instant speed, kills Angel/Wurm/Monger/etc. dead. There's a reason this is in the *sideboard*.

I guess my big question is...should I run Teferi's Moat? For that matter, is there anything I'm forgetting? (I know that Obliterate and Rage hurt but good, but first they have to hide them from my Millstones, and then they have to realize that I can play around such cards.)
 
R

rkoelsch

Guest
I don't think the moat is worth the cost. I realize most decks even multicolor decks have a primary color but I think the restrictions and cost just don't provide enough of a deterent.
 
J

jcredberry

Guest
I have played with a lot of variations of W/B... I would like to tell you that you need to have Voice of All on the sideboard to remove the Millstone once your opponent has sideboarded out the creature removal spells... This is a very, very good strategy...

Against you worst enemy, the Rage, you should sideboard Harsh Judgement... This card just kill them...

Also, against blue decks you should have Gainsay... Excelent...

Instead of Hibernation you should have Evacuation (I think that's the name)... It's at instant speed and is for all creatures regardless of color and religion ;)

And finally, don't think of FoF that way... Without FoF this deck sucks... You should have your cards at instant speed and FoF is the best card for this job... Don't hesitate to use it... :cool:
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Originally posted by jcredberry
I have played with a lot of variations of W/B... I would like to tell you that you need to have Voice of All on the sideboard to remove the Millstone once your opponent has sideboarded out the creature removal spells... This is a very, very good strategy...

Against you worst enemy, the Rage, you should sideboard Harsh Judgement... This card just kill them...

Also, against blue decks you should have Gainsay... Excelent...

Instead of Hibernation you should have Evacuation (I think that's the name)... It's at instant speed and is for all creatures regardless of color and religion ;)

And finally, don't think of FoF that way... Without FoF this deck sucks... You should have your cards at instant speed and FoF is the best card for this job... Don't hesitate to use it... :cool:
1. My opponent had BETTER not remove his creature removal spells. If he does, Meddling Mage just sits there and grins, being four Counterspells for WU.

2. I'm really not that afraid of Rage. Not enough to devote sideboard cards to it.

3. Gainsay is directly worse than my normal countermagic.

4. Generally speaking, I only need mass-bounce against Fires. Evacuation will never resolve vs. Counter-Rebel at five mana.

5. FoF will, on average, put 2-3 cards into my graveyard. Some of them will almost certainly be cards I need. All my card-drawing is ALREADY at instant speed, and doesn't put anything into the graveyard.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Oh, I almost forgot...you'll forgive me if I ignore that last little bit? If this deck sucks without FoF, it'll suck with FoF.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Yah, but if you're looking for a Counterspell, FoF will get you a counterspell if it's in the top five cards - Every time. The thing is, when you play FoF, you will likely get two cards. One of those will be VERY good, the other merely average. Sometimes you will get three. On rare occassions, you will get one or four. But you'll almost always draw at least two cards off of it. And the cards you lose aren't LOST, per se, simply not drawn. It's identical to having them at the bottom of your deck, rather than in the graveyard. Either way, you won't get to play them.

Simply put, I think it's almost certainly a better choice than Inspiration. You gain the same number of cards on average, and you get BETTER cards with FoF. Losing cards from the top of your deck is not a big deal unless you're losing to decking.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Allow me to explain a likely scenario.

I need a Wrath. My opponent has pushed through some fast creatures, and is dealing me steady damage.

I cast FoF. I pull Island, Wrath, Counterspell, Plains, Millstone.

My opponent, who has a brain, puts Wrath in one pile and the other four in the other.

I now lose two land, a Millstone, and a Counterspell because I need that Wrath. One kill mechanism and one useful countermagic spell.


This will never happen with Inspiration.

I felt, feel, and probably always will feel, that FoF is best when A) playing a combo, or B) playing a deck in which the cards you DON'T get won't matter. This is neither of those.
 

Killer Joe

New member
If you're using Story Circle (nice choice!) then you must be willing to play other MM cards like Accumulated Knowledge.
Also, allow me to state the obvious: This is a local 'metagame' deck you're building, right?
Otherwise, why not use Hagstead's U/W Control deck from Worlds?
<see my U/W Control post for list>
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I begrudgingly use Story Circle...not because it's not amazing (it is), but because I want my decks to survive Nov. 1st.

When Nov. 1st comes around, I'll have to find something to replace Story Circle. I'll probably bring Exclude into the maindeck and sideboard vanilla COPs.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Heh. I'll be more likely to draw three cards from Standstill. "Oh, I can counter your next spell AND draw three cards? Don't mind if I do!"
 
J

jcredberry

Guest
This young Jedi doesn't believe the advice from an old veteran player (30+)... Use the force, I mean, FoF... What happens if your Wrath is not the first or second card on top of your library... Use Inspiration and you'll have to wait another turn of beatings that will probably kill you... I have tested UW and Nether-Go and I can tell you FoF is a must...

And a Rage CAN and WILL kill you... With or without the Millstone... You have to be prepared... I guy from my country played this deck at Nationals and was 3rd and on way to Worlds...

You should also think about Orim's Chant... And the Mine...

Believe in the force... ;)
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I've thought about Orim's Chant...am seriously considering including it in a deck.

I'm a veteran player too, and not much younger than you are. I just think that while FoF is a GREAT card for some decks, this deck loses more than it gains from it.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Results:

WOW. Did I ever misjudge MY environment!

Here's how the three matches went (I dropped when it became clear that I wasn't gonna win anything, and I had somewhere to go and friends to meet up with):

1. W/U control vs. Pre-Con
Some guy had handed his son a pre-con deck from Planeshift to play. No, seriously. Poor kid never stood a chance...but I was nice, helped him out with questions and the like. Only trouble was that his turns took for-EVER...I thought we'd time out!

2. W/U control vs. Blue Rage
This was the WEIRDEST deck I've ever seen. Ran Opt, Fact or Fiction, and Prophetic Bolt for card drawing and searching...a healthy dose of countermagic (I saw Foil, Thwart, Counterspell, and Exclude off the top of my head), and four Urza's Rages. I ALLLLLMOST took him...but he seemed to have an answer for all of my answers. Absorbs were always on the wrong end of a second Counterspell (well, almost always). Meddling Mage got countered, Repulsed, and burned. And while Millstone did steal away one Urza's Rage, the other three were enough to do me in (I had pushed one Absorb through, and Story Circle: Red kept P. Bolt damage away.)

3. W/U control vs. OrboFISHion
OrbPosition, with Merfolk Looters, Thieving Magpie, and Temporal Adepts being the creatures I remembered. Again, what I had was *almost* enough...he had serious trouble keeping the lock down. But Mages kept getting Repulsed (yes, again), countermagic kept finding its way into my opponent's hand at the most inopportune times (see also Thwart), and while an early Mage in game 2 kept him away from his Looters, I couldn't stop his Repulses effectively enough.

Lessons learned:
1. I overplanned for Fires and B/W. BADLY overplanned.
2. There's a lot more blue in this environment than I thought. 4x Gainsay go into the sideboard; as keen as Reprisal is, I need Gainsay more.
3. Force Spike is a lot better than people give it credit for.
4. I'll be SO glad when free countermagic rotates out.
 
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