Type 2 Genesis Utility idea - needs help

[Mikeymike]

Click here for pics of the new Judgement cards: http://www.londes.com/judgementspoiler.html

I came across my first Genesis yesterday and I went to sleep last night thinking of a way to create a utility deck for him. The first few cards that came to mind were Hunting Grounds and Mystic Snake. Once you hit threshold you can drop a Snake for free with the Grounds and counter anything - and if you can kill the Snake you can loop it with the Genesis for 2G. Also, I'm not sure yet if the Grounds limits you to dropping 1 creature, but if it doesn't its even better.

So I need to figure out a good way to flip my deck into the graveyard and/or use Buried Alives to put the creatures of my choice in the deck, but I'm not sold that black is the way to go.

Engine:
4 Hunting Grounds
4 Genesis

Potential finishers:
Questing Pheldagriff
Mystic Enforcer
Guiltfeeder
Iridescent Angel

Potential Utility creatures:
Mystic Snake
Brawn/Anger/Valor/Filth/Wonder
Glory
Flametongue Kavu
Kamahl
Wormfang Drake (protect your own creatures)
Art/Enchantment destroyers
Diligent Farmhand
Missing Many

Threshold/Graveyard fillers:
Merfolk Looter/Compulsion
Mental Note/Fact or Fiction
Buried Alive
Book Burning

Helpers:
Nostalgic Dreams
Phyrexian Altar
BoP
Living Wish

Crappy decklist
4 BoP
4 Merfolk Looter
3 Genesis
2 Mystic Snake
1 Glory
1 Diligent Farmhand
1 Guiltfeeder
1 Iridescent Angel

4 Buried Alive
2 Nostalgic Dreams
4 Hunting Grounds
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Threshold Helpers
2 Living Wish

25 Lands of all shapes and colors

All suggestions are welcome

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

That combo is so perfectly and insanely evil.

What would be best is some way to bounce it... I'm thinking something white or green would be best (if you're not casting the Snake you don't have to worry about the UU)... but I come up with nothing.
You'd have to go blue, and use Cloud Cover or Equilibrium in some way.

Whatever you do, don't put in anything red that you intend to cast. Given the nature of the combo, 3 or even 4 colors would make sense, but red is virtually pointless.

 

[Mikeymike]

Thanks TICM

I was thinking about bounce too, but I don't think I need it for 2 reasons. Genesis/Altar is the key recursive engine, so I can get those snakes/CIP creatures (which will be in the sideboard) back to my hand relatively dependably. Plus including bouncers (like Equilibrium or the Planeshift Gaters) creates another combo in the deck which makes it even harder to get the pieces I need. I like the Altar b/c of how little artifact destruction is out there. I agree about the red too, an FTK in the board will be fine with the Living Wishes, BoPs and Altars.

Regarding the Need for White, I thinking about only running a couple of Riftstone portals as my only whitesource lands since the BoPs and Altars should be able to definitely help with the white - my only need for white is for the Grounds (minus what might be in the SB). With minimal support for white I can focus on the other 3 colors, which is nice b/c I'd like to go BoP, Looter, and B. Alive in the first 3 turns.

Also, I'm not attached to the Looter, but I figured since the Snake is a big part of the deck running a blue Threshold helper wouldn't be a bad idea (so I can actually cast the Snake if I don't get the Grounds).

I think I need an early game defense too. If the deck gets the combo out (Genesis, Grounds, Altar) it should win - unless someone gets out quick and I can't handle the little critters. I need a CIP or sacrificial critter that wipes the board clean for me. Any good non-red ideas?

----------
Since I still don't own a lot of these pieces, I'm first going to build this deck as an extended version running Hermid Druids. Should be good practice.

 

[Jigglypuff]

First, the Hunting Grounds only allow you to put one creature into play per spell. As for the deck, I like the idea a lot. I think Buried Alive and Entomb are necessary, since you need Threshold for the Hunting Grounds to work and you need Genesis in the graveyard. You might also consider Anarchist, to recurse your Buried Alives. I like FTK a lot, maybe even good enough to maindeck. Another card you might consider is Eladmari's Call, which would allow you to search for a creature at instant speed, to be dropped into play via Hunting Grounds. I would be very interested to see what you would do against a deck that can play a couple of threats early and then sit back and not cast spells for your Hunting Grounds. Here's a rough decklist:

4 BoP
2 Genesis (2 because of Coffin Purge, Rat's Feast, etc.)
4 Mystic Snake
3 Merfolk Looter (Threshold-helper and can discard your creatures)
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Anarchist
1 Staunch Defenders
1 Jungle Barrier
1 Diligent Farmhand (why the heck not...)

4 Buried Alive
2 Entomb
2 Eladamri's Call
3 Phyrexian Altar
4 Hunting Grounds
2 Living Wish (can also retrieve a Genesis that was removed from the graveyard)

25 lands - Forests and plains, mostly basic to maximize the Farmhand, maybe some City of Brass so you can hardcast FTK, Looter, or Angel.

Phew that was long.
(- Steve -)

EDIT: As for the FBL: As much as I want Zito, I can't get rid of Padilla right now. Maybe we can work something else out.

 

[Mikeymike]

Thanks Steve,

That is a good build. The biggest difference I see is the Anarchists vs. Nostalgic Dreams. Anarchist is good b/c it can get the Buried Alive's back while working with the combo - but it can't get the Grounds back. That could be an issue as I'm not running any Sterling Groves for protection. The Dreams I like b/c they are cheap, I already own them, and they retrieve anything. It might be a drawback that I have to discard for them, but I don't mind discarding critters and Riftstone Portal is also a good discard target.

Jungle Barrier is a very good idea. But do you think he or Vodalian Merchant is better? I like the discard ability, but I think the Wall's beef is more important.

I would be very interested to see what you would do against a deck that can play a couple of threats early and then sit back and not cast spells for your Hunting Grounds.

Me too, that's why I need at least 1 board clearing creature in the deck or sideboard. I figure it needs to be white or black so I can hard-cast it, as I'll probably have to do. A recursive fogger would be nice (like spore frog or Spike Weaver) would be nice but alas...I'm drawing a blank right now. Maybe Major Teroh, Shambling Swarm (tough cost), Dromar, or Plague Spitter.

Oh yeah, I need to include an Elvish or Druid Lyrist maindeck.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Hey, I'm glad you like my build.

I was originally going to suggest the Merchant, but he's not as good compared to the Looter, especially since you need to use him repeatedly for best results and you don't have a way to bounce the Merchant. You definitely need the Wall's beef for defense. Out of all of the choices you mentioned, I like Shambling Swarm the best. Here's a new idea:

4 BoP
2 Genesis
3 Jungle Barrier
3 Mystic Snake
3 Merfolk Looter
1 Shambling Swarm
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Staunch Defenders
1 Elvish Lyrist

4 Buried Alive
3 Phyrexian Altar
4 Hunting Grounds
2 Nostaglic Dreams
2 Living Wish
2 Eladamri's Call

25 lands - Still mostly basic: forests, plains, a couple of islands, still some Cities.

(- Steve -)

 

[Mikeymike]

Regarding the Swarm, he's my #1 pick too but that BBB will be tough for me to handle, since I will most likely need to cast him when the Grounds isn't out. But right now I think he's the best bet.

What do you like bet. Staunch Defenders and the new guy from Judgment:

5WW
4/4 first strike
When he CIP, you gain 1 life for each card in your graveyard.

Also, Reya Dawnbringer? I'd LOVE to get her on the table at my Friday night magic place. I'm also leaning towards 3 Living Wish, since I have a feeling my Genesis will be removed from the game a few times and dipping into my sideboard will be very handy and probably something worth doing more than twice a game if I need to. If its a dead draw I can discard it to the Looter (who I think I definitely need to run 4 of, if I don't get him early I'm in trouble). I think its bet. 3 Calls and 3 Wishes, I don't know if I should or can run both, but both make sense. The power of the Wish is a little intoxicating though...I've got to try it.

Man, I need to get and learn Apprentice and quick.

BTW - Don't worry about the trade, I have no problems holding onto Zito right now. Padilla was a very good pickup early in the season, I think you beat me by a day off of FA.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I like the new Judgment guy but I'm afraid he might be too expensive at 7 mana, especially since you would need him to help stave off early attacks and Staunch Defenders is better for that since he's two mana cheaper. I agree with you on the Looters; he's an integral part of your early game. Let's see, what else... Since the Swarm is prohibitively expensive, the Barriers are more important than ever, except that you would need to rearrange the mana a bit. Here's another version:

4 Birds of Paradise
3 Jungle Barrier
4 Merfolk Looter
3 Mystic Snake
2 Genesis
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Staunch Defenders
1 Elvish Lyrist

4 Buried Alive
3 Eladamri's Call
3 Living Wish
4 Hunting Grounds
3 Phyrexian Altar

25 lands (you know the drill)

By the way, you never explained exactly what you do with the mana generated by the Altar.

(- Steve -)

 

[Mikeymike]

You've got to be kidding me! I just wrote up a HUGE response, included an explanation of the Altar, a decklist, and a potential sideboard. I hit submit and got a 'cannot display the page' error, I hit back and all of it was gone.

MFer.

I post the Altar explanation tomorrow, but I also wanted to say that I'm also looking at Phantom Nishoba and Elvish Piper maindeck. Was also thinking about Bloodfire Collosus in the board - although I really don't want to have to do that.

 

[Spiderman]

I hate when that happens. Try hitting Refresh first (and Yes at the re-sending info prompt) to see if you can salvage it before hitting Back.

 

[Mikeymike]

You're right Spidey, that's what I should have tried first. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Thanks for the heads up!
---
The Altar, my goal is to not be too dependent on it. I'm hoping I can lose creatures the old-fashioned way (through combat) a lot of the time. I will take burn from it sometimes, but in those cases I do it will be worth it. To protect 1 of my critters from getting removed from the game, or to make sure the guy I need is in my GY for next turn's upkeep.

A lot of the time I should be able to get away with saccing during my 2nd main phase and using the mana. Not ideal, but the Genesis' 'beginning of upkeep' restriction limits my actions.

The best way to use it would be to do a Snake loop. Have 1 in play and 1 in the GY. At the beginning of the upkeep activate Genesis targeting the Snake in the GY, sac the other one for Genesis' payment.

I need a sacker to make the deck work dependably, and I figured an artifact that can be used at any time and gave me a mana advantage would be the best bet - but if anyone has a different suggestion I'd love to hear it.
---
I'm thinking about Phantom Nishoba as the lifegainer in the deck.
Pros
He gains lots of life (28 potentially)
He can pass as a finisher
He is Steven Seagal (Hard to Kill)
Cons
He cost 7 (which hopefully shouldn't be an issue)
His lifegain is 1 turn slower than the Defenders.

Also I was thinking about running 1 Elvish Piper maindeck as a backup to the Grounds. However, I think he works best in a red deck that can put Anger in the GY (needs a mountain to work). Hmmm, now I'm getting another idea.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Okay, here we go...

I personally think that my last build was pretty good and I can't think of any ways to improve it.

So how about a completely new build:

4 Hunting Grounds
4 Traumatize
4 Holistic Wisdom
3 Nostalgic Dreams
3 Phyrexian Altar (can't think of anything better)

4 Birds of Paradise
2 Genesis
4 Jungle Barrier
3 Mystic Snake
1 Iridescent Angel
1 Phantom Nishoba (worth a shot)
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Druid Lyrist
1 Diligent Farmhand
1 open slot

25 lands (you still know the drill)

(- Steve -)

 

[Mikeymike]

The Good - its down to 3 colors, its got more creature slots, its definitely getting threshold, the Wisdom works nice with the Diligent Farmhand.

The Bad - Traumatize is 2 turns slower than Buried Alive, getting 4x Traumatize will be a tiring (or expensive) proposition for me, I lose the Looters ability to get to the Grounds relatively easily.

I like the last build the best so far, plus the Nishoba. The only question areas are exactly which cards to use bet. the Wish, Call, and Nos. Dreams, if I really need 4 Grounds, and the proper land count (will probably be closer to 26 than 24).
-----

The Piper is cute, but I don't think he belongs in this build. He belongs in a G/R/B deck with Genesis, Anger, and no Snakes/Grounds combo. This one is much easier to set up, and its got mass removal in the Deed which is always nice.

4 BoP
4 Elvish Piper
2 Anger
2 Genesis
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Kamahl
1 Thorn
3 FTK
1 ??
1 Glory (Piper protection)
2 D. Farmhand

4 Buried Alive
3 Living Wish
3 Pernicios Deed
4 Duress/ 2 Nos. Dreams + 2 E. Call

24 Lands

 

[Jigglypuff]

Okay, that looks fine.

If you want to use the Piper, stick with that build. Go with the Dreams and the Calls over the Duress. In the open slot, try the Angel as a finisher.

If you want to use the Hunting Grounds, I think my latest non-Traumatize build would work pretty good.

There.

(- Steve -)