Theron Martin suspended for five years!

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by arhar, Sep 19, 2001.

  1. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    To be honest, I feel sorry for the guy. I don't know him, and to be honest I haven't heard of him before, but I feel sorry that he must quit this great game due to someone elses misdeeds. Just sad.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  2. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Furthermore, why bother checking your rating unless you're verging on the 1900 required to get a PT invite (I think that's the number)? As Spidey said, if your rating is decreasing regularly (in theory), why check?

    Also, even if he DID check his ratings, chances are the fake store reports would have VERY low K-Values, so they wouldn't really do all that much in one swoop. Let's assume that if Theron crashed at a PTQ, he would lose 20-30 rating points. Now, a store tourney would have a MUCH lower K-Value, so he'd gain maybe 8-10. Would YOU notice the difference if you weren't specifically looking for it?

    [This from Kenny Crawford's new article, in reference to the reports: "I listed nearly twenty Friday Night Magic tournament reports that I had personally falsified at the direction of Dave..." And he DIDN'T GET PUNISHED?!?! --Edited in, Zadok001]
  3. Baskil CPA Member

    It's not as simple as that Duel. You should not only take away his points, but you would have to recalculate almost everybody's DCI rating. His inflated rating has given people more points than they deserve in a win, losing more than they deserve in a loss.

    5 years is fine, IMHO. Cheating the system, whether you were a participant or not, should not be tolerated. There had to be some evidence against him knowing that his rating was inflated, or else he wouldn't be banned.

    Oh, and that scum that runs that store should have his premier status taken away permanently.
  4. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    There is a big thing on the DCI site though, saying that over the course of about 20 events, or something like that, any changes to your DCI ranking will tend to even out - as your ranking goes up you lose more points when you lose for instance. So potentially the falsified reports could have turned out to make a minimal difference to his rankings in the long run.

    I think that there is really only one issue: does the DCI have hard evidence Theron was involved?

    Yes? 5 years is right.
    No? Throwing a player out without evidence of anything other than culpability is wrong.
  5. Baskil CPA Member

    If he knew it was going on and didn't do anything about it, he's just as involved as if he actually submitted the reports.
  6. Mars New Member the mtG News discussion of this whole thing, and it includes a letter from Jeff Donais:

    The Facts As Known

    from: ShowUsTheProofDCI on September 22, 2001 10:48 AM

    1) Crawford states Delawishywashy is the most evil man on Earth, and Delawishywashy told Crawfor that Theron asked for the ratings boost. I have no argument with Ken that Dave D. is evil, but if so, doesn't that mean he is a liar, and therefore COULD be lying in this case?

    2) Kenny Crawford may or may not have a personal issue with Theron. I'm not sure, but it sounds that way.

    3) The DCI is employed by a corporation, Hasbro, and thus has no reason to list their proof. Unfortunately. They are police responsible to no one but their employers. In fact, they can set themselves up for lawsuit the more they talk. However, in this case, I think it important enough they do come forward, and if not, I call for the formation of a Magic Players Union.

    4) If guilt by association is enough to convict a player, or in other words, if hearsay is enough, then we must conclude Dave Williams is guilty, as he was at least "acquainted" with Ed Fear, if you read Anthony Alongi's report on William's final match at worlds. Welcome to the Spanish Inquisition, Part II.

    5) Jeff Donais letter follows:

    If your players ask, tell them that if someone knowingly allows false matches to be entered into the database to pad their DCI rating, they will be held just as accountable (or close) as the person who is actually sending in the paperwork for the false tournaments.

    You can also tell those players in your local area that we wouldn't suspend someone for that unless we had evidence that they knew what was going on.

    The DCI Policy Manager (and the head of our investigation team), Chris Zantides might make additional comments (although he certainly doesn't have to) on the issue.

    As always, take public messages of people defending themselves by saying, "But I didn't know!" with a grain of salt.

    Take Care,

    Jeff Donais
    Sept 20, 2001
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    So hold on now... only 4 people are listed, 3 from IN, and 2 from the same area. Giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the third IN person is involved... this whole thing sounds like more than 3 people are involved. Including this Kenny Crawford guy who isn't mentioned...

    I agree that if you knew about it but didn't do it, you ought to get punished. Apparently there's not varying degrees of punishment for actually doing the deed and just having knowledge of it, but...

    It seems more people ought to be on that list. Did Kenny get out of it for "turning state's evidence" or something? I would like to know more, but so far since it looks like not everyone's involved and got punished, it still looks very fishy.
  8. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Kenny really should get nailed on this one. Theron may have asked for his ratings to be changed, but Kenny friggin' TURNED IN THE REPORTS. And ADMITS it! Why should he NOT be punished?
  9. Baskil CPA Member

    Immunity for presenting evidence maybe? There has to be some reason, or else he should be up there. However, if the DCI decides that they don't want to ban him, that's their decision to make. They're a private organization that can pretty much do whatever they please when it comes to this sort of thing.
  10. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Immunity is BS for this kind of situation. "I cheated, but so did my friend John Doe over there." John Doe gets banned, and I get nothing?
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    "they're a private organization..."

    Pretty much why a lot of people here have called for an independent organization, separate from WOTC, to handle this stuff.

    And again, only two people from that area, maybe three were involved or benefitted(not including Kenny)? I find that hard to believe...
  12. Gizmo Composite: 1860


    Can you explain to me the logistics of this 'independent body'? Seeing as it would not possibly have any source of income, and thus would be 100% expenditure?

    Just curious.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant


    Well, off the top of my head, a portion of the fees either organizers pay to hold a tourney or fees paid by participants can be start.

    A body can be made up of players and WOTC members.

    Evidence should at least be available to the accused, if being available to the general public is not feasible.

    There should be a method of appeal/arbitration to a separate body, not one again that is beholden to WOTC.

    Any of these ideas can be combined or replace the current method.

    Does that satisfy your curiosity?

    Like you, I have not given this too much thought seeing how I don't even play, let alone in tourneys. This is just "think tank" stuff.

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