There's no sublimittal message in the front page article by Ura: Times of Change

[Killer Joe]

Ura wrote a good article on a HOT-BUTTON topic that seems to be on the mind of a lot of CPAers.
"To Spam or not to Spam?"
That is the question.

Disclaimer: I started this thread to create intelligent discussion about a topic that you may or may not be aware of being discussed in smokey rooms filled with corprate evils........whatever, j/k .

Let's talk!

Here are some things to discuss (of course, you may bring up whatever it is YOU want to discuss):

1.) Do you, personally, think you've 'spammed' on these boards before? And, if so, do you think it's wrong?

2.) Do you believe that you are capable of 'policing' yourself from spamming over abundantly, or, at all?

3.) Does it matter to you that people on these boards are spamming? If so, please share with us what YOU consider spamming and what YOU think others should talk about.

4.) Do you believe that YOU are intelligent enough to sift out the benign threads from the informative threads?

Comment: I don't watch 'Jerry Springer' much, but I have to admit, there are many who DO watch it, because if there weren't a lot of people watching it, it would be off the air (bye-bye Phil Donahue, the sensitive male finally got a backbone).

God, if I don't sound like a hard core Democrat with THESE views, then I don't know what one is

 

[Spiderman]

I believe Ura wrote an article more titled "Has the CPA Lost It's Way" and in it was concern whether there was too much non-Magic stuff, spam or no spam.

But for your questions:

1. I believe I've spammed. I think it was pretty wrong and the only lame defense I have is that there was near-nothing Magic-related going on anywhere.

2. Sure. I can just clam up and wait until something Magic related is said (and is intelligent). I've done it before...

3. It matters slightly to me people are spamming and by spamming I mean this:

Posting 'I've reached x posts' posts
Saying "I'm bored, let's talk" when there's a chatroom

4. I'm not sure by what you mean by benign; you mean threads that don't fall under my categories above but are not Magic-related? Sure... I just check if they fall in the above categories.

So where's your answers, Yellowjacket?

 

[Darsh]

1. Yes I've spammed(You know that, I was indirectly mentioned 3 times in that article) I did that either because there was nothing happening or to see what kind of responses I could get from my crazy post.

2. Absolutely, I've started posting more on topic lately with less of the crazy pointless stuff.(Of course I'm still going to do it occasionaly in the Battle Arena and here)

3. The only posts I get annoyed with at are the have nothing to do with anything, posts with only 1 word, and posts like "Total posts +1!"

4. Of course, anyone can tell the difference between an intelligent discussion thread (Multani's Political Corner for instance) and crazy "party" threads (Most battle posts)

One last thing I enjoy the crazy threads as much as I do the serious ones, just a different type of discussion.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

1) Well, I spam from time to time. I usually don't do it for the purpose of spamming. Rather, some of my posts are not simplistic spams, but weird conglomerations of words that, when you get down to it, is really just complicated spam. Mine is the thinking man's spam, with a certain air of dignity and grace (j/k, this is going spam )

In response to the other part of this question, though, I think that everyone who has ever spammed should be ripped to shreds and fed to Duke and fuzzy510.

JUST KIDDING.

Seriously, while there are some who would disagree, I don't think that spamming from time to time is really all that detrimental to these boards. There is a point, however, after which it becomes a problem.

2) I really don't think I spam all that much, except my "thinking man's spam" (see above). Some of you might somehow be inclined to disagree. I feel that a little of what I post is mildly irrelevant, but that's it. Thus, I am usually able to keep myself from spamming, unless I'm feeling the irrelevancy fever.

IRRELEVANCY FEVER! Aah.

Sorry, I had to let myself go. Remember, if the reply is long and has some value, it's not a spam.

Seriously, I can keep myself from spamming very often (this is a bad example, but oh well).

3) The spam really isn't a huge problem, in my opinion. Sometimes it gets mildly annoying, but not very often. Other people might be more annoyed with this than me, but so few people spam recreationally (except in places that are sort of made for spamming - look at the name of this forum) that I don't see it as a major nuisance.

To me, spamming is saying things that are not even remotely related to the thread they're in, (although if they reflect intelligent thought, it's probably not considered spam - for example, what happened in FoR's "For you new people - Names" thread about a month ago.), like "Poo gas" or a large amount of what Ransac says (no offense Ransac).

Also, saying in one thread what should be said in another forum is in some ways a method of spamming. I'm not like this, but think of it this way: There might be some people who for some reason never go to certain forums because they think that what is in those forums is somehow bad (this is merely hypothetical and could incite discussion, don't mind me). Thus, if they find some people fighting in the New Members forum, they might get annoyed or dispirited with the site, especially if they see this as a trend (which might be possible).

I think that people should for the most part limit themselves to talking about the subject of the thread, although if the tangent that they attempt to go off on is related, this isn't a serious problem.

4) I think that 99.125% (all but about 7) of the people here are certainly intelligent enough to sift through pointless threads and thoughtful ones, but the question is really "Do they want to?" For some people (hypothetical yet again), this may represent a significant annoyance, and might be driving them away. But I don't find it hard. Usually when I go on, (which isn't as often as I'd like) I have enough time that this isn't a problem.

Whew. Seriousness done.

IRRELEVANCY FEVER! Whew!

[me] Thallid Ice Cream Man goes dancing away to a disco beat [/me]

P.S.: Oh yes, and Apollo should be banned from the New Members forum for his intrepid refusal to say anything other than "Welcome" to new members. Well, that isn't fair. Once he said "Welcome!" He must have been excited that day. j/k

 

[K9Archmage]

I like spam

 

[terzarima]

hmmm prime example there,

I can say I have spammed, well not really spammed, but replied to things that have nothing to do with anything, just things in general, eh? Everyone does that, so every one has technically spammed, well with very few exceptions.

I agree with Ura completely in fact, maybe he got his idea from my thread "I've had a vision, no wait I lost it..." spam is killing this by clogging the arteries of the Cpa, eventually the heaert will cease to beat, BECASE IT HAS BEEN CLOGGED AND SUFFERED A HEART ATTACK

 

[K9Archmage]

I think that the whole purpose of the off topic section is to spam! I mean, it is THE OFF TOPIC SECTION. Spamming outside if this section is wrong, of course.

 

[Sleepy]

I wouldn't be here if not for the high quality spam in this place!

 

[Apollo]

1) Yep, I've probably spammed. But I don't think what I do is really wrong. I just do it mostly in the off-topic and battle arena forums, and I try to make it slightly funny when I do.

2) I don't think I'm that good at policing myself. I don't really know the line that seperates excessive spam, so if anyone ever thinks I'm spamming too much, please tell me (here come sarcastic remarks!)

3) It doesn't matter to me, as long as they do it where it's supposed to be (here).

4) Sure, I can sift through them. I do it all the time. If I see a thread is getting boring, I'll ignore it.

As for the New Members forum: well, there isn't much to say, you know? If the other person says "Hi, I'm new here," what are you gonna say to them? I don't wanna scare them off by talking about crazy people, but I don't wanna say nothing, so I compromise. I use to say "Yo" to everyone.

 

[Hawaiian mage]

Spam.

 

[Hawaiian mage]

Okay, that was bad. Sorry.

But siriously though, I haven't played a real game of magic in months. A few apprentice games, but that's it.

I come to the CPA to read the spam. It great. We all have the one thing in common that we play (or used to) magic and we all like to have a good time.

Just the fact that everyone likes haveing fun is enough to make this site part of my bookmarks.

So in short, there can never be too much spam. Except that message I posted 30 seconds ago. That spam sucks.

[Edited by Hawaiian mage on 11-06-00 at 08:58 PM]

 

[Darsh]

Originally posted by Apollo
2) I don't think I'm that good at policing myself. I don't really know the line that seperates excessive spam, so if anyone ever thinks I'm spamming too much, please tell me (here come sarcastic remarks!)

Whoohoo! ::Cracks knuckles::

You're the one that forced us to MAKE a line!
Geeze Apollo can't you take a joke?

 

[DÛke]

1.)Do you, personally, think you've 'spammed' on these boards before? And, if so, do you think it's wrong?

Yes. I seriously think that I have spammed these boards to the point of slight hatred by some. I spammed for attention, and that's the truth that I admit without shame.

2.) Do you believe that you are capable of 'policing' yourself from spamming over abundantly, or, at all?

Not many know this, but I am a person that sticks up to their words. Right now, and believe it or not, only time will show, I will tell you that not a single word of spam I will speak as long as I am a CPA member. I know not many take me seriously, and I know exactly why; it will all change. It will take time, but it will change. I promise.

3.) Does it matter to you that people on these boards are spamming? If so, please share with us what YOU consider spamming and what YOU think others should talk about.

Personally, and what the truth is, I don't believe in spamming. I think people just get carried away sometimes; and when these people are ignored for a while, they will start spamming, and yes, speaking from experience, it does make you more "known" throughout the boards. Known for the bad reasons, but nevertheless, "known".

4.) Do you believe that YOU are intelligent enough to sift out the benign threads from the informative threads?

Yes, and I don't believe it, I know it. I have seen many threads that I just "ignored" because I know what looks like spam, and what looks like an intelligent thread. I am highly aware of the number of spammers we have around here, and highly recommend that they should stop; I don't have the biggest problem with it, but seeing that many do have a problem with it: Istanbul, Almindhra...etc. We should stop, for our sake, and for the others'. This is everyones' CPA; everyone must be respected, and everyone must be treated equally, and fairly. If as much as one active member hates our spam, we should highly consider stoping it. The CPA is not mine to spam; not yours, and not anyone’s: it is ours.

With the name of Duke, I rename myself as ArchDuke; the new, spamless, and actually meaningful Duke. I promise.

[Edited by DÛke on 11-07-00 at 01:10 PM]

 

[Zero]

1.)Do you, personally, think you've 'spammed' on these boards before? And, if so, do you think it's wrong?

A) No, I have not spammed.


2.) Do you believe that you are capable of 'policing' yourself from spamming over abundantly, or, at all?

A) Of course I am. So is everyone else.


3.) Does it matter to you that people on these boards are spamming? If so, please share with us what YOU consider spamming and what YOU think others should talk about

A) Yes. I hate it. I know this is the off topic, but quite a few of these posts are just stupid. Off Topic doesent mean "Pointless Forum". Same applies to the Battle Arena.



4.) Do you believe that YOU are intelligent enough to sift out the benign threads from the informative threads?

A) Yes, who isnt?



Sorry! I was a little harsh (Dont even get me started about duke! lol!)

 

[Cateran Emperor]

Why has no one started singing the Monty Python "Spam" song yet? I'll start!

SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAMITY SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, SPAMMITY SPAM!

Back on topic, sure I've spammed (I just did!) I've been on the recieveing end of spam. Yet I don't care. It's not hurting anyone, so just ignore it. Jebus, people are too easily offended these days. Toughen up and learn to laugh!

 

[Killer Joe]

1.) Spam is relevent, one persons 'spam' is another persons personal expression. To say I have never 'spammed' before would draw quick fire, so I say, yes, I personally allow the possibility that other's may view my posts as 'spam'.
Do I think it's wrong? No.

2.) Yes, I can police myself, but why should I. Again, 'spam' is relevent, how do I know that I'm spamming?

3.) I could care less if people are spamming, it's not really my business anyway.

4.) Yes, I can sift through the benign from the informative, but again, that is a relavent issue, what is benign to one is anothers informative jewel.

Alright, I may have not explored the heart of the article (again, another persons opinon of what the 'heart' of the article was).

Has the CPA lost it's direction?
No. Increasing numbers in membership are hard facts to argue against. Did the CPA lose sight of it's original mission? Well, Wiz Co. has been printing better sets for the liking of most members here, right? Type 2 tournaments are going to be running a little longer in the matches, that's good, right? We're not faced with 'Combo Winter' are we?
If some of you want to pick up the torch of liberty, then run with it, and don't look back, because there may not be a whole lot of folks behind you. You need a 'CRISIS' to start a holy war against Wiz Co. and right now, well, there ain't a reason to shove it down their collective throats.

Bottomline: I think I personally could sharpen the ol' nogin and write more interesting stuff about Magic, and I will start to do so from now on, in the meantime, make my spam with lettuce, tomatoes, and mayonaise, on fat Rye bread.

 

[Spiderman]

K9Archmage: Hate to break it to ya, but the Off-Topic forum was NOT created so people could "spam", it was created so people could talk about things that were not Magic related (and it was unfortunate that a spat of jokes led the way, not a very auspicious beginning). And by "things" I mean high-quality "things" (definitions being discussed now).

Yellowjacket: So you're telling me that people posting "I reached x posts!" are actually relevant to some people? Forgive me, but I think it's obvious that people have reached x posts; just look at their number on the left. And frankly, though it may be of interest to some people, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it pretty much ranks on the bottom of the "need to know" scale.

In other words, sure, you can learn some useless fact everyday and say "Hey, I learned something, it was relevant to me". But if it's something dopey like looking at how many people joined in a day, a month, how many posts were made in a day, etc... that kind of knowledge just doesn't need to be spread. (I'm not sure if I'm coming across clearly so hopefully you're getting what I'm trying to say).

And again, I argue:

Increasing numbers of the CPA? Sure, if you count the multiple aliases of some members. Take them away and you still have a good amount, like 600+? Yeah, if you count people who came here ONCE. Take them away and we still have 300+ (pulling numbers at random here)? Is that really enough to influence WOTC when apparently there's that many on a couple Pro Tours?

And it'd be nice to think that casual players were SOLELY the cause behind the change in recent sets (from what you said, that's what I'm implying) but let's face it, pros said Combo Winter was bad for business too. There's no data that says one group was in the majority for being responsible; all I can draw from what Dune Echo says is that WOTC looks at the big picture as a whole and bases their decision on what they see. And again, since the Pro Tour emphasizes typical tourney play and not typical casual play, I would infer they listen a heck lot more to pro views than casual views (to keep their Tours going, if nothing less).

Remember, back when CPA was being founded, I had no problem with how WOTC and DCI were handling things. I didn't have a problem with Waylay errata and I didn't have a problem with 6th ed. rules. And I don't see a problem with WOTC now (like most others). I came to the site for the comraderie and discussions on Magic and I think that's been missing lately. That's all (I mostly argue the CPA direction because I think Kevin Chen was right when originally discussing the merits of forming the CPA and I think the CPA Mission Statement probably needs to change).

And Apollo, I sure am glad you're getting the flak for just saying "Welcome" to new members and not I

 

[Zadok001]

RE: Question 1

I don't think so, no... I've joined in one battle, but found it fairly lacking. Since then, I've only replied to threads when I had something to say. I wouldn't be suprised if there are some exceptions to that statement, after all, I've been here for a LONG time, but I think they're few and far between.

RE: Question 2

Absolutely.

RE: Question 3

Yes, sometimes. I'm tired of the posts that say 'Hey, ~name~' or 'I'm bored' or '1000 posts!' There are a lot of things that could and should be private messages out here, especially the threads people start with the name 'Hey ~name~!' PM, guys. Its there for a reason. The post count threads can be a Good Thing(tm) (for example, I'll occassionally get notification of someone passing a membership mark because of those threads), but really, if you have 1000 posts, good for you. Don't start a new thread for it, it only clutters things up...

RE: Question 4

Absolutely.

RE: Definition of Spam

Yes, the CPA boards have spam, in quite disturbing amounts. The Off Topic board, right now, has several messages with no particualr purpose, other than to boost post count. If there's a reason for that 'the?' thread, I'll be darned. And there's also a message that is LITERALLY 'Hey, ~name~!' It annoys me that there are so many topics that no one cares about.

This thread is an example of something I think deserves to exist, without question. Most other threads serve their purposes, but almost never spawn an intelligent conversation. That needs to stop. Lately, I've considered simply dropping off the Off Topic 'boards altogether, as they have nothing to offer me except occassionally threads like this one- intelligent, (mostly) spamless discussions based on something that actually has a purpose.

Please, guys. No more 'Hey, ~name~' threads. Those are useless and annoying to dodge. If someone else is on late at night, and you want to chat with 'em, use ICQ, or PMs, or the Chat Room, or any number of other options. Don't start a thread with 'Hey, let's talk' as the title. People have to dodge it later when they're looking for REAL threads.

 

[Baskil]

Originally posted by Yellowjacket
Has the CPA lost it's direction?
No. Increasing numbers in membership are hard facts to argue against. Did the CPA lose sight of it's original mission? Well, Wiz Co. has been printing better sets for the liking of most members here, right? Type 2 tournaments are going to be running a little longer in the matches, that's good, right? We're not faced with 'Combo Winter' are we?
If some of you want to pick up the torch of liberty, then run with it, and don't look back, because there may not be a whole lot of folks behind you. You need a 'CRISIS' to start a holy war against Wiz Co. and right now, well, there ain't a reason to shove it down their collective throats.

Nail. Head.
Admittedly, I have not been around the CPA for a long time. Granted, I thought that it was a place for people to complain about people like me who play primarily in tournaments. However, my decision to come here was more along the lines of Spiderman, to find a decent place to talk about magic.
Now, I have no problem with people voicing their opinion. However, I think Ura has had his head in the sand for a few months. Just look at the last few sets. Is there any doubt that the CPA's objectives are being reached?
Combo is bad - Last 4 sets without a combo engine
2/1 for 1 is bad - The last 5 of them (Molting Harpy, Flailing Soldier, Branded Brawler, Scarred Puma, Skyshroud Ridgeback) are not on par with the 2/x for 1s of old
Longer matches - Millstone is playable... any questions?

They are listening. There's no need to take up arms against an unarmed opponent.

 

[theorgg]

Thanks to DUke for doing this so I could "reply with quote" and have an easy time doing this...

1.)Do you, personally, think you've 'spammed' on these boards before? And, if so, do you think it's wrong?

Yes, Of my 900 so posts in the last year or more, I have spammed several times. I'd say that a fourth of my posts were completly irrelivent, and quite a few of the things I did for fun in the battle arena were completly pointless. However, I treat respectable threads with respect-- I'll "spam" in places that have such a large amount of spam in them that one more can doesn't make much difference--or I'll do it accidentally by posting a joke that somthing somone said reminded me of. It might not be entertaining for some, but If a few people like the joke, I'm happy. I know that it probably isn't a good thing--I'll admit I'm somtimes annoyed by it, too-- but it will exist. It will always exist, unfourtunatly.

2.) Do you believe that you are capable of 'policing' yourself from spamming over abundantly, or, at all?

Yes. I try to keep the irrelevent things I say to a minimum, or confine my posts to blow off steam to the battle arena.

3.) Does it matter to you that people on these boards are spamming? If so, please share with us what YOU consider spamming and what YOU think others should talk about.

Spamming should be defined as "somthing noone cares about." Thus, to people who don't play Magic would consider all of this as spam. What I consider spam, apart from the obvious things like that pyramid scheme that was recently put up, are things like the 'X posts!' or 'lets chat' or (18 spaces...) "shaply milk man" that FoR prefers when in that mood.

4.) Do you believe that YOU are intelligent enough to sift out the benign threads from the informative threads?

I've been doing it quite a while, so yes.


On another topic, the reason for the Battle Arena and Off Topic area: Battle Arena is for people to let off steam. When Duel posted somthing about Mr. T that I didn't like, I let him have a beating--In thread. It made me feel better and gave some people laughs. Others use it to hurl personal insults. Others, in good natured fun. Somtimes it gets out of control, such as the unspeakable thread that was deleted from it a few months ago.

Off Topic is for things not magic related, be it jokes or questions about things that actually are not Magic related, but otherwise related to things that might interest Magic players. an example I point to is the thread "F!" I posted that inquired about anyone knowing of Freakazoid!'s cartoon.