The Official Forbidden Ritual Experiment Thread

R

Rooser

Guest
Alright, I'm opening it up to everybody. Can the think tank break an unerrataed Forbidden Ritual? I think we can.

Our best starting points are:

1) Tombstone Stairwell. Of course, anything that let's you put out a bunch of zombies again and again is probably going to win without the ritual.

2) Squirrels + Land fetching = Exactly one metric ton of permanents.

If we want to make this interesting we can hold an apprentice tournament with our results and see how it stacks up.

Have at it, guys!
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Carrion maybe...

Kaervek's Spite, even with the errata...

But basically anything that gets you tokens...

Infernal Genesis, Saproling Burst, that sort of thing...
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, here's the un-errata'd wording:

Card Title: Forbidden Ritual
Color: Black
Type: Sorcery
Cost: 2BB
Pow/Tgh: n/a
Card Text: Sacrifice a card in play: Target opponent loses 2 life
unless he or she sacrifices a permanent or chooses
and discards a card.
You may repeat this process as many times as you
choose.
Artist: Christopher Rush
Rarity: Rare 1
Click to expand...
Is the goal to go infinite so it doesn't matter what choice they choose, eventually they'll have to start losing 2 life anyway? Or should discard be part of the beginning game to disrupt them on the way to the Ritual?
 
T

train

Guest
I think the point is missing when it comes to ideas so far... The unerrata-ed wording shows "card" in play...

If that's the case - I have no doubt a Hermit Druid/replenish deck would do the trick...
 
T

train

Guest
First turn: Bayou, Elvish Spirit Guide, guide and bayou for druid...
Second turn: Scrubland, activate druid...
third Turn: tap bayou for black, Lake of the dead, sac bayou, scrub for white, lake the scrub for 4 more giving you 6 mana - cabal ritual(threshold), replenish, forbidden ritual...

And even without the ritual - the replenish can win the game for you... but we want the ritual - so it's bonus...

tutors and such can ensure the win early on...;) Even a City of solitude if necessary... And if it comes in with the ritual - even more bonus...:D
 
R

Rooser

Guest
I think there's a logistical problem we're all ignoring:

To "break" this card we have to break it with its own strategy, not just plug it into an existing combo deck. We're trying to make this a "win" card, not a "win more" card. Infinite squirrels wins anyway. Replenish wins anyway.

We need a combo or deck style where Forbidden Ritual is pretty much the only card you can win with ... and it has to be broken.

The irony is, of course, that by breaking the card we are validating the errata - the errata which many of us would protest against as unnecessary nerfing. If we can't break it then we are proving ourselves correct.

That's why I suggested a little friendly competition, to keep our motivations pure - why else would anybody try hard at proving themselves wrong?
 
T

train

Guest
Balthor the defiled, Morality Shift... Forbidden Ritual...

And use non-haste creatures - but mana-produces like priest of gix...;)
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
B/G

*187 Creatures
Wood Elves (fetches duals)
Yavimaya Elder (fetches 2 lands, always nice)
Duplicant (removes creatures from the game, nice with L.Death and Lifeline)
Deranged Hermit
Sengir Autocrat

* Recusion options
Recurring Nightmare
Living Death
Lifeline
Oath of Ghouls/Oversold Cemetery/Phyrexian Tribute

* Tricks (besides the Ritual of course)
Lightning Coils (two-fold combo: in a recur deck your creatures will constantly be going to the yard adding counters, and the tokens it creates make great Ritual targets)
Crop Rotation/Sylvan Scrying (to get Gaea's Cradle)
Collective Unconsciouness/Skullclamp/Symbiotic Deployment (token friendly card draw)

* General Utility
Pernicious Deed (helps control the amount of permanents they can sacrifice)
Necrogen Mists (again, limits their pitch resources, allows you to set up recursion bombs)

* Lands
Gaea's Cradle
Duals
Whatever
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Hey Rooser, going off what Mikey said (dude..you're so stealing whatever little thunder I can come up with Mike) how about combo'ing...

Lifeline
Gravepact

Even if only one of these cards make play they're going to help you simply through attrition. Think about the pain and suffering you could apply once casting Forbidden Ritual!?

Throw in Anarchist and we could make this a every turn affair! In all honesty it'd probably look like some funky version of the Rock.

Cackling Fiend
Ravenous Rats
Abyssal Horror (too expensive though)
BODY SNATCHER! Think about the fatties we could play with this sucker!
Mind Warper
Screeching Buzzard

AND on top of that we could use:
Mindslash!

If you don't draw into death AKA Forbidden Ritual you could systematically remove all other players threats EVERY turn.

I'm thinking something like this:

4 Lifeline - Feeds the Forbidden Ritual Combo
2 Gravepact - Once the Combo is out lock down the game
4 Forbidden Ritual - Ultimate Power
3 Anarchist - Keep the Combo Alive!
1 Demonic Tutor - Duh
1 Vampiric Tutor - Eeh?
2 Diabolic Intent - Pretty useful here
4 Dark Ritual - Need to be quick!

Various Critters and spells.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Okay, the problem with lifeline/gravepact is that it's symmetrical. They'll just get their creatures right back too.

Further, you need to remember how triggered abilities work with the stack. While the resolution of a Forbidden Ritual may require a bunch of hemming and hawwing on the part of both players, it's all stilll a part of a single resolution. Triggered effects like gravepact or abyssal gatekeeper don't get to resolve until the Forbidden Ritual is entirely done.

In other woirds:

I play Forbidden Ritual, I have an abyssal gatekeeper and a squirrel token, my opponent has a grizzly bear. I sacrifice the squirrel token first - my opponent discards a card. Next I sacrifice the Abyssal Gatekeeper; it's ability goes on the stack, but does not try to resolve until the Forbidden ritual is all done - therefore my opponent does not sacrifice the bear yet, and if he wants to, can sacrifice it to my ritual. If the Ritual ends and my opponent still hasn't sacrificed the bears, then the gatekeeper trigger resolves and my opponent would then lose the bears.

Anyway - this is a hard one to break, but fun.

Another thought I had was not necessarily to look at it in terms of winning hte game, but rather just as a big messy effect to ruin your opponent's day with as you proceed to pound them.

Anyway, I'll work on a deck.


EDIT:

Actually, Train might be onto something, even though he was joking around. If all the creatures had CIP effects that caused discard or permanent destruction - (heh, heh, or mana) - then a ritual just might take it to the hole. If you built it right, we wouldn't have to use somehting dramatic like morality shift.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
It couldn't be called broken if it doesn't fit into a deck that would be better off with something else in place of it and still isn't considered broken...

In other words, if you try to use it with Replenish, it would need to be better than that which is used with Replenish already. I don't see that happening, but I could be wrong...

At the moment, black cards are looking most promising. Which is good, because it means there won't be any inefficient color splashing done...

I do realize the paradox concerning whether or not this is broken, but if I look at it this way. I'm wrong, I want to know...
 
T

train

Guest
Casual with Tokens... 61 cards...

4 Forbidden Ritual
4 Hermit Druid
4 Balthor the Defiled
4 Priest of Gix
4 Mesmeric Fiend
4 Bone Shredder
4 Faceless Butcher
4 Laquatus Champion
4 Hermit Druids
1 Fastbond
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Lake of the Dead
4 Bayou
4 Llanowar Wastes
8 Swamps
2 Forests
 
B

Bcopes

Guest
What about Verdant Succession? I know triggered abilites go on the stack and resolve after the ritual, but it would be kind of cool to sac a bunch of leaves play/comes into play-type-ability creatures, especially ones that let you get/fetch permanents, so that you can overwhelm your opponent soon after the ritual resolves. Or better yet, nail them with a second one when they are completely unprepared.
--------------------
Hermit Druid
Yavimaya Elder
Wall of Blossoms
Caller of the Claw
Penumbra Creatures
Symbiotic Creatures
Vetern Explorer
Liege of the Hollows
---------------------

All of these would lead to some quick restoration of the beat down. Maybe the Ritual doesn't necessarily have to be the mechanism to kill the opponent, rather, a really screwy version of Balance/Pox/Geddon/SmokeStack/Wrath and the like, used to break their resources.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Train, you listed hermit druid twice....:rolleyes:

So, people, are we giving up?

I'll post a decklist to get us talking.
 
T

train

Guest
sorry about that - but it just gets better with 4 more cards:

Casual with Tokens... 61 cards...

4 Forbidden Ritual
4 Hermit Druid
4 Balthor the Defiled
4 Priest of Gix
4 Mesmeric Fiend
4 Bone Shredder
4 Faceless Butcher
4 Laquatus Champion
4 Nekrataal
1 Fastbond
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Lake of the Dead
4 Bayou
4 Llanowar Wastes
8 Swamps
2 Forests
 
T

train

Guest
Hadn't been at a shop in a while... will try it then...

Though I do need to proxy some items...;)
 
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