The Future of the CPA

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by ChasDen, Apr 12, 2000.

  1. ChasDen Moderator

    In light of various post lately about “the future”, “the role”, the organization of” the CPA and so forth, I offer the following observations:

    a. Traffic on this site is reaching a very healthy bandwidth. For some who may not be so computer enlightened, last week this site served 943 Unique sites with Total visits of 3,106. At the current pace we will serve almost 2 gigs of page hits this month, almost a 75% increase over last month. If the current pace continues, by mid summer we will exceed 10 gigs of page hits per month.

    b. The CPA has over 140 registered members. Although most do not actively post, someone must be hitting every week.

    c. The CPA is run by a group of visionaries who do it out of love for the game without ANY payment or profit.

    d. A lot of the REALY GOOD Magic sites are being overloaded, shut down or simply abandoned leaving many wondering what in the world has gone wrong.

    e. Put 10 accountants in different rooms with the same information and they will all come up with a different return, (Sorry still doing the business taxes, but) the same applies here as the membership grows. Many will differ in their opinions, interests and goals for the site.

    f. The Mission statement still applies. How the goal is achieved, the path followed and how long it takes to get there only depends on the general membership.

    g. If the CPA is to continue, Organization is needed.

    For those who have no Idea what it takes to run a website, consider that for the most part - 1 guy runs everything you are looking at and using. I may assist Mike in uploading and debugging from time to time but he does almost everything. Others may offer an occasional article, assist in submissions and grant some nicknames. As the membership grows and new people and ideas arrive, so will the need to offer diversity. I see a tremendous possibility here and suggest the following:

    Official Officers
    1. Webmaster – Responsible for running the website. Major work, updating, running and maintaining the website.

    2. Web Assistant – Responsible for assisting the Webmaster. Moderating message boards, granting nicknames, processing article submissions, and what ever the Webmaster could use help doing.

    3. Weekly Columnists – Various people who will commit to writing articles on specific game related subjects every week. No excuses, Due each week.

    4. Public Relations – A spokesman for the group when writing letters, suggestions, recommendations and so forth.

    Once these and others if needed, are agreed upon, put their names and email addresses somewhere where everyone can find them. Start a weekly “round table” discussion and limit the discussion to one specific topic. When time is up, do what the majority of the group wants. A perfect topic for week one would be: If you could add one feature to this site what would it be? At the end of the week make a voting booth with the top 5 responses. Let the people vote and then do what the masses want. By involving everyone, the masses are more likely to feel at home. With membership comes diversity and with diversity shall come wisdom. As a general suggestion to those who always say “I would like to help but I don’t know how”, You may be able to and just don’t know it yet. For those who are ready to “Quit” or are “Bored” Quitters - Quit! It was nice knowing you and good luck. I for one choose to live life and enjoy. For those of you who are simply bored, WHY? Give solutions to problems, don’t just whine. Tell us how to make things better, don’t just tell us its broke.

    I fear that without some direction, leadership and care, this site will end up as a topic on some other board like some that have appeared on ours.

    Just my opinion. As a wise old man once said “Your opinion is never wrong. Just keep your opinion separate from the facts.” If you have a different opinion please do not tell me I am wrong. Share your opinion, show examples of how to make things better and together lets keep the CPA strong.
  2. magicman_moe Guest

    i dont think that the cpa has to go that far, dude. the reason some members like tomb and the other article writers like to write is because they have plenty of time to do it in and they dont have to worry about deadlines. they dont really worry about gettin bitched at cuz theyre article didnt get done on time. i think the future is fine with the cpa and yeah we do need a little bit of organization as far as running the site is concerned. i do like the idea thats been brought up though. i think that would make it easier to run if we had reliable postions with reliable people in them. but as far as articles and round table disscusions go, i dont think thats really needed because everyone else does it and its a tired idea. ive been in many rtd's about sometimes the same subject and its the same idea thats been done over and over. i think that we should let all members write an article about mtg or anything else thats site related or not and then if the members want to write articles weekly/biweekly, then let them. if theyre too tired or too busy or just dont want to write articles anymore,then ask someone to write in their place for the time theyre gone. this would help anyone with writers block or is too busy with school work. oh and why would you need a pr person? i dont understand what he would do so if you could clear that up for me that would be cool cuz i dont see why this site would need a pr for oh well ill give my true opinion when i learn the reasoning around that question ok cool this is mmm sighin out g
  3. arhar Member

    I could answer some of your questions, MM. Basically, it seems like most of the members (not all of them) want to expand the CPA and make others believe that not only pro's can go online and express their opinions about the game, trying to make WOTC consider their needs. And if we want to be a force to be reckoned with (although I know some won't like this terminology), we can't just be a message board with a lot of people posting their crazy ideas :) Although that's a lot of fun! We need to communicate with other parts of Magic community and we need organization in CPA. Those are really good points you made, ChasDen. Personally, I would like to write a bi-weekly article about multiplayer games, but I can't promise I could do that EVERY two weeks. If CPA founders are interested in hiring me, I could always be found at
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I agree with what ChasDen is saying wholeheartedly.

    I think what magicman_moe is saying basically falls under ChasDen's point F "where the CPA is headed".

    I wouldn't mind being Web Assistant, depending on the expectations and demands of the position. As I've mentioned before, I pretty much only get on during the week.
  5. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Hey, once I learn how to do some assistance type things other than posting articles and notifications, I'd be happy to. Unfortunately, I either have the wrong pw or just can't FTP into the server which makes it hard to help in that area during the time I surf most. Also, there's a rumor at my work that the firewall is going to be limited by amount of bytes downloaded per person. IF this gets instigated, by assistance and browsing time will be severely limited.
  6. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    P.S. I vote Chuck as leader! All in favor, say 'aye!.'


    Nah, just kidding!
  7. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    This thread moved me to write an article where I state not only my opinion but also provide an objective analysis of the situation as well as some potential solution.

    CPA founders, I hope you will publish it.

    If not, please read it at least.

    Thank you
  8. ChasDen Moderator

    << …and why would you need a pr person? i dont understand what he would do so if you could clear that up for me that would be cool…>

    Taking a look at the Mission Statement of the CPA;

    … This group was formed by individuals who, while we may not agree on all issues, are tired of the apparent disregard WotC and the DCI seems to have for us. It is time our voices were heard. It is time WotC stood up and took notice of us, the people who may not play on the pro tour. The bulk of the people who buy their product. The people who pay for their paychecks. In short, it is time to organize.

    OK so now there is an organization, where people come together to exchange ideas, trade cards and help one another. If our voices are to be heard HOW and by WHO? If WotC or anyone else for that matter is to take notice, HOW? This is where someone could promote the site, its goals, ideas and act as a spokesperson.

    << …we can't just be a message board with a lot of people posting their crazy ideas Although that's a lot of fun!…>

    The message board is by far the main reason why most people stick around and participate. But what about those who drop in and don’t come back. No offense, but there are tons of message boards on tons of sites. Please do not be so naive to think that the CPA is “the only” one worth visiting. How many of you reading this right now came from another site, or will log on somewhere else and post after leaving here.

    << … the reason some members like tomb and the other article writers like to write is because they have plenty of time to do it in and they dont have to worry about deadlines. they dont really worry about gettin bitched at cuz theyre article didnt get done on time. …>>

    Here, here, and I too agree and hope that it does not change. My opinion is that if there were a few people willing to write on a regular basis about specific topics it would offer some stability, consistency and perhaps the credibility the CPA needs. If you knew that twice a month some one was going to be posting articles about, say rules, or combos, or a view of magic play in a different country, wouldn’t you look forward to it? I would. Please do not think I am asking for the Dojo2, please lets all learn from their mistakes.

    I agreed to host this site because I truly feel that the mission is something that needs accomplished. To quote the mission

    “The CPA is not a dictatorship. You are free to agree or disagree with me or any other member at any time on any subject. You are not restricted in any way. The only difference is that you belong to something that may be able to get your opinions heard. If we get enough people, WotC will notice.”

    As a group we should decide to either:
    A – Forget all of this nonsense and just treat this site as another place where we can “chat”
    B – Work on a way to actually make a difference.

    If the majority just want to have a “hang out” Cool, but I have a gut feeling that most would like to see more. I don’t feel we need to offer everything that everyone else has, but at least organize the information in the form of a link page or something so that the information is easily available. Have you ever spent hours looking for something on the web and when you finally found it wish you could have saved all that time. If we had a place for members to post or submit links with a short description everyone could surf through the list and possibly save hours of wasted time.

    DUNE –
    “P.S. I vote Chuck as leader! All in favor, say 'aye!.'
    Nah, just kidding!”

    Thanks for the vote of confidence but you know as well, if not better than anyone else, I have too much on my plate now. On a personal note – bummer on the firewall. No way to place an order behind it. Programmer is working on a way, but not likely soon. :>(
  9. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    Look, I know the Dojo is gone, buit I swear, if you turn this site into a high-pressure, high-anxiety tournament player site, I will kill you. Not joking. Dead.
  10. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    I like the way this is going. I personally wouldnt mind writing articles. I'd offer my help on the web mechanics but im afraid I would be no help ( i SO do not understand computers!!!).
  11. Gryphonclaw New Member

    Well, I get to use my 150th post on something relevant.

    Point: Leadership and organization.

    I think that this site is well organized, and thus far whatever leadership there was has been sufficient.

    Point: Where do we go now?

    There does seem to be a tendancy towards a hang-around-and-chat mentality, and less of a lets-light-a-fire-under-Wotc mentality. I'll admit that I generally tend toward the former.

    But when I first arrived here I was rather disillusioned with Wotc. I felt as though I was just about the only person who wanted to just play magic for the fun of it, easy on the rules, with games that lasted anywhere from 10 to 40 to 60 turns, (mostly around 15-35). They would be like chess games where you could move whatever piece you want, not the first you touch, (it's in the rules) and take back a move you immediately saw as stupid.

    Basically, I came here 'cause I thought magic should be fun. I stayed because I found hundreds of others who felt the same way.

    Thus we have a lot of interaction that doesn't seem too relevant to the mission statement.

    What to do about it? I suggest a once-a-month posting by each member on the CPA Issues thread. I don't think this should mandatory, just recognized as in the best interests of the CPA.

    As for the post, gripe about something you don't like about the current situation, or state what you like to see in future sets or rule changes.

    There's my two cents worth,
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You can also post on how much you agree with WOTC's decisions and the way they're taking the game (in other words, it doesn't have to be negative).
  13. Killer Joe Active Member

    This thread shows glimmers of change in the forward direction, that's good, I've always agreed that moving forward is good. However, a certain loss of innocence will come to pass. example: "Remember when the CPA site was a bunch of 'Fun Loving' magic players? Boy, those were some good times" this could the begining of a thread in the not too distant future.
    All I'm saying is that when organization starts to occur there is a certain loss of liberty, on the other hand, if one or only two people are "in-charge", then it may become a dictatorship-like site where no one else has input.
    When pursuing this topic, approach with a very well thoughtout proceedure that contains both elements of liberty and democracy. You can't make everybody happy, but that's the price of progress.
  14. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    >This thread shows glimmers of change in the >forward direction, that's good, I've always >agreed that moving forward is good. >However, a certain loss of innocence will >come to pass. example: "Remember when the >CPA site was a bunch of 'Fun Loving' magic >players?

    While I agree, we have lost momentum and this is more a "Coffee House" than a disgruntled players forum, and although change is good, I fear that this will turn into too much organization and we'll turn a lot of people away. So far, I think this site has accomplished a few of the things I wanted to see:
    -new deck ideas that truly original, yet not "tier 1" and thus not as much fun for just playing
    -connecting players that don't play in tournaments
    -allowing anyone to vent

    Yes, we feel that a lot of the ideas the Chuck and Mundungu have brought forth a REALLY good ideas (I'd love to see weekly/monthly discussions and more letters or an open connection to WotC.) But I don't want this to lose it's relaxed, fun feel and not to be overrun with Bargain, Accelerated Blue, Stompy, Wildfire decks. The Abusing Task Force deck is the epitomy of players finding a quirky, FUN deck that was the definition of casual. I think that we have a good thing here. I don't want to lose it.
  15. ChasDen Moderator

    << …However, a certain loss of innocence will come to pass. example: "Remember when the CPA site was a bunch of 'Fun Loving' magic players? Boy, those were some good times" this could the begining of a thread in the not too distant future…>>


    The voice of a pessimist! It doesn’t have to end up that way. The “Core” of the site, or the purpose IMHO should be left unchanged. Organization is simply organizing what is there. When I organize my cards I simply put them into an orderly fashion so that I can readily find what I am looking for. Perhaps I go out and buy a new box to put them in, or design a different method to sort them. They are still magic cards, they don’t become pokemon cards somehow. Bad people create bad organization. Over the last 6 months I have seen and been introduced to more than enough good people to go around here.

    For those who have not read the article on the front page from Mundungu, please do so, it is wonderfully written. Mundungu objectively looks at various observations, and offers an opinion on what can be done. Agree or disagree? Offer up your observations and suggestions. Positive reinforcement is also sometimes lost in discussions like this. For those of us “Activist’s” We sometimes forget to mention the positive.

    So I will start:
    Why I joined
    1. I share the believe that the game took on a “pro” life of its own. I am a casual player who plays this game for fun not profit.
    2. I found a group of people who shared the above beliefs and could meet them in a relaxed environment with no pressure or prejudice.
    3. Informative and helpful information is shared among the members from game play to other collectables. Helping one another whoever needed.
    4. And countless other reasons often too small to think of. I have come across a variety of people that I consider “friends” even though I don’t even know what they look like. I have often found out months later how old someone was and was shocked. “Juveniles” come in all ages, and so do the wise.
  16. galtwish Loudmouth

    The front page can be the premiere vehicle for the "real" players of Magic (the estimated 1-3 million semi-regular, non-tournament players) to see what is going in, and what the eloquent and powerful voices amongst them are saying. The discussion threads are where they can shape the future of the front page, or get help with a specific deck, or just "hang out" with other Magic geeks like themselves. Hey, kind of like it is now.
    I do agree that the "Front Page" aspect of the CPA could use a little direction and organization. I think we as the CPA can probably come to an educated decision in two weeks. Let's all make our points until then, and hopefully the founders/controllers will be able to give us a referendum/voting ballot to decide how we should go about this. How does 4/29 sound, with the results being given to us on the 1st of May? This will allow for some of the chaos that Regionals swill incur, and give everyone plenty of time to consider what should be going on.

  17. Killer Joe Active Member

    Evolving. With it comes unavoidable change. Change is good IMO. Having a well organized CPA can be a good thing, it can have a mission statement, a common goal, objectives, all the stuff that every great organization had, has, will have. All I'm warning is that not everyone will appreciate this hard work and will continue to use the CPA as a "Coffe-House" of sorts. So please, anyone who gets involved please don't get too upset when you start to notice others just hanging out on the site with not a whole lot to contribute to "The Cause", i.e. ME. I like what I'm seeing and hearing but I'm not sure I can or will be involved in the core of the matter. I will continue to promote this site and recommend it to as many folks as I can because I like this place an am excited about it. Foe me, that's enough for now. Thanks in advance for not flamming me, after all, I am a dedicated 'casual' member.
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yellowjacket: Personally, I feel that the organization should have already been in place, what the CPA is striving for now. Then there wouldn't be this confusion...

    Having said that, and I mentioned it in a reply to Almindhra, I generally agree with WOTC's decisions which puts me in odds with the majority of the CPA (at least the Founders). Even if I vote on a topic I recognize that if the results are ever forwarded to WOTC it will not be what I wanted. But I still plan to post and reply because a) I've got opinions <boy, don't we all> and b) it comes back to that "coffee house" chatty feeling. You can disagree with people here and the "official" stance of the CPA but you can still hang out. So I don't think it's going to lose that aspect.

    IMHO, the only thing you have to watch out for are the kooks and nuts who might find their way here and insert random posts (like those threads on the Dojo "I'm posting this so I can get 50 posts!"). As long as someone moderates then I think it'll be fine.

    Dune: All of those goals could have been done on regular boards; it's beendone here and would have been fine if the mission statement doesn't contain more goals. The main one, expressing views to WOTC, is where the CPA has fallen short and as Albert mentioned in his article, it's a good time to reasses the CPA's goals and determine whether that one should be included or stick with what we've got and modify the mission to reflect it.

    The reason I came here? Pretty simple; everyone with a decent opinion from the Dojo came here and there was really no one left to talk to.
  19. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Spiderman: As a side note to you personally, I liked the Dark Ritual banning, I like 6th Edition rules, and I feel that Waylay only needed different errata so you could still use it with Enchant Creature spells when you have a Fervor in play... and I'm a "Founder."

    This is to everyone: You know what, being a Founder doesn't mean DIDDLEY! Everyone of you that post every day, that come here to share your ideas are what the CPA IS! Founder or not, you are contributing, and that is what matters most. Stop putting the Founders on a pedestal. WE ARE ALL EQUAL HERE! Founder means, I was one of the original EIGHT or so people to post here. Founder does not mean better or special. Anyone can be a leader, anyone can say what they want. Anyone can contribute their opinion and those opinions in a vote will be sent to WotC once the Voting and Issues stuff starts moving again. If you have something to say, say it. Make your voice heard. State an issue you want WotC to see your opinion on. We will treat you as a comrade, friend, and fellow player whether we agree or not.

    Personally, being a Founder means only one thing. I've got more posts than most people and I'm familiar with all the old threads. That's it.

    [It also means we can go mess with each other's posts, but we don't do that too much... :) J/K. No offense, Dune. --Zadok001]

    [Edited by Zadok001 (04-14-2000 at 12:10 PM).]
  20. The Magic Jackal Veteran CPA Member<BR><font co

    hmmm... I've got a couple of points to make.

    1)ChasDen does make a good point. Now i understand what all the hostile stuff was about.

    2)Many of the people's responses didn't use Periods/Capitals, so i didn't read them.

    3)I don't think it is really necessary to write articles about the game itself. This is a casual site, we should be writing articles about what is wrong with the game, where it is going, what needs to be done about problems in the game, etc. If i see one article about why Bargain decks are too powerful, i swear I'll kill (even more) people.

    4) I would be interested in writing articles, the only problem is that i am commited writing fantasy articles for conquest magazine ( Plug: Expect them to appear after they finish with all of the Nemesis talk articles.

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