The Dojo is Dying

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Zadok001, Jan 25, 2000.

  1. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    I'm not sure, really. This may just be me and my obsession with the Old Forums(tm) (May they forever live in infamy), but the Dojo is looking decripit recently. No, that's the wrong word. The Dojo is looking freakin' DEAD.

    First, we, the CPA, abandon the forums in favor of these. Then, the forums change over to the 'new and improved' *sik* design. Due to these two events, most of the people who used to post don't anymore.

    Furthermore, Wakefeild leaves. By far and away the best writer Magic has ever seen (question that? Go read 'It's All About the Dinosaurs') has LEFT the building. Even if he hasn't left altogether, his new articles simply suck. No Magic, all Ashron's Call. Which isn't bad, but it kinda removes most of the interest people _had_ in his writings.

    And now? God only knows (I sure as hell don't want to know) what the people in charge of updating that page do, but it sure isn't updating. There used to be a minimum of three new articles a day, five days a week, plus whatever back page stuff got added. Now, we're lucky to get three articles a WEEK.

    Oh, and the main link to the 'new and improved' *sik* forums are gone. Forever. It's been replaced by a tiny, ten-point font thing hidden about half-way down the main page. Wonderful.

    Anyway, there's no real post to this. Just thought I'd let you guys know that the Dojo has fallen from its perch aloft above the other M:tG sites of the 'net.

    But I am sure damn glad we didn't decide to get them to host us. :)
  2. theorgg Slob

    you speak the sad truth.

    The forums as we knew them have receved their final nail.

    Wakefield has stopped sending regular articals...

    although his ashron's call articals ARE pretty entertaining. he should be getting paid to advertise for them. a spectacular wrighter, whatever the subject. he needs to put out a book or two.

    the best artical I've seen on the donno I've seen lately is the one on today about "momentum in magic".

    very well thought out, and another great term applied to what all good players just reffered to as the æthric "advantage" that was held at that second. I also liked the confiscating of a land tactic to cement a victory. helluva cool(to quote Mr. T).

    I am sad to see what once was the premire Magic: the gathering site going downhill. I remember at one point you had to check it three times a day in the summer to keep "in touch" with what was going on.

    sad times it has fallen on...

    this is unrelated, but where can I get pics from big tournaments on the web? I've looked everywhere and can't find any.
  3. Ed Sullivan CPA Founder, Web Guy

    Ahh, I believe you are right. But I think we also helped the demise -- at least forum-wise. Most of the more active people migrated over here and poof! The forums died. Couple that with the forum change...

    Hell, tonight was the first time I visited it in a week. And I haven't really read a Wakefield article since his original AC one. :(

    'Tis sad.

    But on a lighter note, I wonder if we could get Wakefield to write about HUGE green for us. :) That would be pretty cool.

    -mike
  4. Leshrac New Member

    It's sad to see, but I believe The Dojo has become a victim of it's own success. I remember way back in the day (like, oh, four years ago) when anyone could get on the front page. Admittedly, the site was totally chaotic and it was impossible to find most anything, but at least it was updated frequently. Now it seems The Dojo has simply "sold out" and is more concerned with making a buck than helping the Magic community. As for the message boards, I'll agree that I don't like the new system at all, but you have to remember that The Dojo didn't have any message boards whatsoever until fairly recently. The Dojo was created to filter out the chafe posted on Usenet and present the result in web page form. As Usenet declined (heck, I bet half the people who read this won't even know what Usenet is...), The Dojo's need to do this task also declined and submissions turned to focus on e-mails sent in by readers. The guy who founded The Dojo unfortunately no longer runs the place, and the (I think there are two) guys who run the place now decided to put up a Bulletin Board so that "everyone's voice could be heard," or something like that. This initially caused quite a stir with the long-time Dojo readers, who remembered the chaos of Usenet and wondered if The Dojo had just gone full-circle, reviving the chaos they were supposed to control. Well, despite these concerns, The Dojo forums became more and more popular with its readers, and more and more ignored by its creators. You know the rest of the tale already, so I don't need to go through it...

    Which brings me back to my main point, while money seems to have brought better quality writers and a greater presence to The Dojo, it also seems to have shifted its focus from providing for its readers to providing for its owners. Unfortunately, I think the only way its owners are going to realize this is when the flow of traffic slows and the money stops coming in.

    Putting up public forums is always a great risk for any web site. While a popular forum can fuel traffic, an empty one can serve to humiliate an otherwise popular site and drive people away. It's not too late for The Dojo to save itself, so it's a bit early to say what will happen one way or the other, but don't be surprised if one day The Dojo Forums just disappear alltogether.

    [Edited by Leshrac (01-25-2000 at 10:34 PM).]
  5. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Hey, that's a great idea Mike! :) Wakefield! Requesting Baron, Mike, Ferret, Orgg, and anyone else: Let's set up a draft of a message for Wakefield to see if we can get him to write at least one article for this site... Big fatties. Mmmmm... Big fatties.
  6. theorgg Slob

    do ya'll actually think wakefield is casual ENOUGH? I mean, he's been to three or four pro-tours! He does seem to have a good sence of humor, and also likes to play decks that are fun to use, but is he Truly casual? and what would we say if he started using the forums?
    A REAL CELEBRITY IN THE FORUMS!
    what would we do? I havn't the foggiest.
    If I get a chance(school just got back in session even though it's still below freezing, the'll feel like idiots if it rains/snows/ices/sleets/hells/et cetera...) I'll wright a draft. what do we want to incorperate into it?

    and on an unrelated note, how much does getting buttons made from a custom design cost? I'm thinking aabout making some "Official Member" buttons with the cpa image in the background...
  7. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Well, I honestly think that The Dojo's has suffered from "The Duelist Effect".

    When The Duelist was first published it was a nice simple magazine w/ lots of well written articles and was usually good for a couple of days reading. When you were finished reading it you could leave it on the coffee table and other people could read it. Of course, it was a quarterly at the time and their writers had 3 months to put together their articles. Then they changed to Bi-Monthly and they had to cram more into each issue, but it was still pretty good.

    Then InQuest came along. A magazine that took an unorthodox look at Magic and was MONTHLY. All of a sudden The Duelist had to compete. They changed to monthly and the writers couldn't pump out their articles fast enough - so they turned to "The Pro's" to write their articles for them. In no time these Professionals had their own collumns and the focus of The Duelist moved towards dealing w/ The Pro Tour and away from the casual game...the quality of the articles went down and eventually the magazine folded (the presence of Pokemon didn't help - but that's for another rant).

    If you look carefully you'll see the parallels - well, maybe not that carefully...

    -ferret

    "...Wakefield? It would be nice, but we don't need him..."
  8. Ed Sullivan CPA Founder, Web Guy

    Well, Orgg, custom image design in its own is really frigging expensive. For a lowly button you'd be expecting $50-$100 :) ... Now, if you want me to work on another one I can.
    (Side Note: I put a new, ANIMATED banner on MOTL. Go to the main page and scroll all the way down to see it.)

    About Wakefield: It would be kinda cool, but I wasn't entirely serious about that. I mean, yeah, he is a pro. But then again, Secret Force was actually a casual "Supposed to suck" deck. It would be kinda cool to see him do some articles though... I mean magic related articles. [IMG]

    -mike
  9. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I was thinking along the same lines Ed. I think Jamie Wakefield decided to play green when green sucked because he liked it. I think it's possible that casually, he would be able to write tons of stuff on green that would be casual and fun while letting him not worry about a metagame here. I'd also like to get Anthony Alongi. That guy can write and anyone that decides to trash the Dojo in his articles on the Dojo and then decides that Jangling Automaton can be broken is just perfect for us. Anyone feel like recruiting?

    Ed, I have several webpage development books and software. What can I learn to help you out? I passed the Core part of my A+ so I can play for a while. Unfortunately, I still don't have my computer at home up and running yet. The CD-ROM won't read a disk for some reason on my pc but will work on someone else's pc. I think my motherboard is going flaky... But that's for another time.

    [Edited by Dune Echo (01-26-2000 at 11:20 AM).]
  10. The Magic Jackal Veteran CPA Member<BR><font co

    I just started using the dojo recently, and i must say I like their forums. It was easy to figure out how to use them. I never saw the old ones, so i cant compare, but I think the new ones are easier to use for new members. Yellowjacket put up a post to this forum, and at first I was a little confused. It was a little difficult to figure them out. What I am trying to say is that I believe that the dojo is trying to make their forums easier to use for new members, and they hope that the olders members will continue to stay on. Let me rephrase that, the loyal members will continue to stay on
  11. theorgg Slob

    the old forums were close to this format, sans message icons(the things you choose to be at the top of a message) and the concrete color scheme.

    it went through about what? six or seven color changes?

    as for fuedel europe, if you didn't like it, you could burn it.

    not so on the dojo. I sent in several replys to pro's bitching about the game not being fun anymore(to quote wakefield: WTF??!?) and none of them got posted.

    which format is better, this or the dojo?
    depends on taste, but I like this.
  12. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Oh, this. No question. I fear change (well, not really, but it suits my purpose for this post). The Dojo changed. 'Bad Thing' (tm).

    Feudal Europe was moronic. Sayth man with big sword: 'I have big sword. I kill you now.' Yep, that's the Dojo alright.

    The reason I haven't returned to the new forums, except for short, to the point, humorless messages is that they're really bad. My list of complaints is elsewhere, I won't go over 'em again. I don't mind the people, I'd love to be talking to 'em all again, but the forums themselves are a waste of bandwidth, IMHO. I just don't like 'em. Nothing personal, but my preference.

    --Zadok001, aka Greater Good fanatic
    CPA Founder
    "We have more sprouts than they have hands."

    "No, Orgg... It was more like ten color changes before the settled on just removing it altogether."
  13. Ed Sullivan CPA Founder, Web Guy

    Might I add that all of their color schemes were really UGLY!! Purple and very light green?? WTF? :)

    Then of course there was the whole "My eyes! My eyes!" thing with the main page.

    And lets not forget about the ever growing amount of ads they run.

    -mike
  14. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Please explain to me what there is to be "loyal" to? A bunch of guys who constantly write about how great they are and expect us to just mindlessly agree w/ them? Or maybe a bunch of foul-mothed children that think the new forums are just a Flame Party?

    Thank you, no.

    -ferret

    "...reminds me too much of feudal Europe..."
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Boy, where to jump in on this...

    The new forums have gone downhill but mainly because of the current inhabitants. As Ferret said they're mostly one-liners, flamers, no-real-content type posters. If the quality of posts had continued even after most of you moved over here it probably would be okay but it didn't so it isn't.

    One could also weigh the merits of immediately posting all unsolicited articles to the way they have it now (few a week). Perhaps the Dojo thought that the forums would take care of all that "reply to" postings. My thought is that it's not all bad because most of those replies were "oh yeah, I agree with the original poster" or "the original poster's opinion is totally wrong!". I mean, take Wakefield's Zog and Cog article and subsequent replies. Perhaps 5 of them were worth reading; the rest were "me too!".

    Boy, what's my point? I agree that the Dojo has gone downhill in terms of new and updated articles, in general. But seeing the quality of most of the "articles" (replies), maybe that's not a bad thing.
  16. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Did someone mention actual articles on The Dojo's front page? All I ever see is an ad to "punch the monkey" (too many jokes...) an ad for the next Grand Prix they're sponsoring, your chance to get some more T-Shirts, or the latest on how the teams they sponsor are doing...oh wait! I saw an article mentionning the "metagame" and something about more "decks to beat" yesterday...

    -ferret

    "...If it weren't for The Dojo I might be forced to think..."
  17. theorgg Slob

    ummm...
    this is a little off track, but I ment a REAL kind of button. the kind you have pinned to your shirt sometimes.

    I was thinking of an "official member" over the cpa banner, and www.casualplayers.org on the bottom of it.
    I just want to know how much it would cost for me to make them, and how much I'd have to ask for in payment to break even with the shipping and stuff.

    size wize, I'd say it would be about an inch by two inches, rectangular.
  18. arhar Member

    You know when Wakefield went downhill? When he wrote "Of Cog and Zog".. that article was pretty scary. If you didn't read it, he claimed that the ideal future for any intelligent person, not a high school football player, as he put it, was to end his life mending his mind with a online Everquest character.. And since then, his articles became horrible :((( The only stuff I read now on the Dojo is "Casual Fridays" (anyone wants to invite this guy to write here?) and Alice Coggins's stuff.
  19. Baron Sengir CPA Founder, Vampire Legend

    I think the last time I actually enjoyed reading anything the Dojo put out was before we announced our existence. The last thing that really caught my attention was Kevin Chen's attack on our organization. (Of course, they didn't ever print my final retort, the buttnuggets ...)

    I heartily agree with the Duelist theory. I don't understand it, but I agree with it. When will people understand that the average Magic player cares about the Pro Tour very little? Look at Inquest. They are a popular magaznine and their coverage of Pro Tour events is a page or two at the most. On the other hand, how many times have you seen them devote four or five pages to imaginary cards they thought would be cool?

    The average Magic player could give two f*cks about how Olle Rade did at PT Barcelona or some crap like that. Why is there a need to make Magic Players into celebrities? Like I'm gonna ask Randy Buhler for an autograph. On the other hand, if you talk about fun or controversial aspects of the game be prepared to talk all night.

    This is why the Dojo is dying. Too much Grand Prix crap and not enough fun stuff. Not even any news anymore except for the Nemesis spoiler.

    I used to go directly to the Dojo on my daily cruise through cyberspace. I was one of the first to sign up for the forums, which will always hold a special place in my heart as the birthplace of the Casual Players Alliance. Now all I can do when I visit their site is to shake my head, 'tsk, tsk, tsk' sadly and wonder how the hell such a vibrant, relevant site has fallen so far.

    There's a lesson here, kiddies. Specialization = Stagnation. Stagnation = Death. Always keep an open mind.

    I remain
    The Baron
    Wide awake at 3:09 am. Caffeine is a gift from God ...
  20. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Caffeine? Thanks for reminding me...be right back...

    ...Ah, coffee. Ah, more of the good old days when The Dojo was still fun to read... I remember jumping to it every morning w/ my eyes wide open ready to digest whatever was waiting...now, I give it maybe one or two glances a day.

    My daily routine has changed to Online Comics, CPA, MTGNews, MSN, anything else that's on my mind, email the wife, and then The Dojo...if they're lucky :)

    Let them die. I won't miss them.

    -ferret

    "...spitting on a grave..."

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