The Aggro Player's Bible

[Master Shake]

Since I have started coming to the site, I have been reading Oscar Tan's Type one articles... Why does it seem to zap the fun from the game?

I know that I am not forced to read it, but some people take the game way to seriously... playing a game for prize money... seems a lot like poker or something... but at least in poker everyone has equal odds.

Anyway, he advertises his "Control Player's Bible" But, then he tries to apply card advantage to aggressive decks, such as Suicide Black.

Maybe it is just me, but I did not think that the same 'rules' applied to building aggressive decks. I was always under the impression, that in type 1, agressive you needed:

1. Creatures that can attack for more then they cost (exceptions: WW (exception: Savannah Lions) and Fish.)
2. Creatures that had some sort non-damaging ability, at a cheap cost (True Beliver, Hypnotic Specter, Gorllia Shaman)
3. Burn (for red)
4. Accel if you are running anything < CC3
5. Punishment for artifacts/non basic lands (Null Rod, Price of Progress)

Since when are agressive decks that burn off life and cards in hand for a turn 2 5/5 wasteful?

I also do not think that Oscar puts enough into life and library as valuable resources. Last time I checked, a good deal of games have been wo by reducing your oppenet to 0 life.

Oscar's articles make it seem as if aggro is not even viable anymore.

I find that rather interesting, because a neo-academy deck ay my locale T1 FNM lost to a U/G Maddness deck (T2 legal from a year ago.) The weak before that, it lost to zombies (T2 legal as of today.) The week before that, it lost to goblin sligh (1x legal as of Decemember.) These well all losses in the top 8 (of about 40 people) It is not that he is a bad player, or the deck is poorly built, it is just that he simply could not keep up. Other decks such as Hulk Smash, Keeper and Neither Void (void is a shaky deck in the first place) have all had problems with WW, Goblins, Sligh, Stompy (I will admit it, I was playing stompy) and even Evles!

Like I said, it is not that the decks are lacking, or that the pilots behind them are bad, but that they can not keep up.

Aggro decks do not get the representation they deserve.

 

[Spiderman]

playing a game for prize money...

No surprise there, it's been happening officially since the Pro Tour debuted way back in '97? And some could consider "ante" money before that.

seems a lot like poker or something... but at least in poker everyone has equal odds.

Not really. Some are better poker players than others. Everyone plays from the same deck, true...

I don't know/play enough Type 1, let alone competitively, to comment. I would probably find some Type 1 boards and get their opinion (or email rakso directly and see if he replies).

 

[train]

I can't actually think of any aggro deck that got what it deserved...

You just have to look at it as "What is dominating the scene?"...

If aggro isn't winning the big tourneys, it probably won't get mentioned as much...

 

[TomB]

Originally posted by Master Shake
Since I have started coming to the site, I have been reading Oscar Tan's Type one articles... Why does it seem to zap the fun from the game?

Many people feel that way about tournament play. I believe that was one of the reasons why this site was created - to preserve and advocate "casual" Magic playing...

Aggro decks do not get the representation they deserve.

Then write an article representing that perspective, and submit it for publication here. Please try to avoid direct comparisons to Mr. Tan's work though. Instead, try to focus on the concepts of deckbuilding, matchups, and the attitude an aggro player needs to be successful in a tournament environment.

Also, please run your work through a spellchecker program prior to submitting it, or Spidey will wish harm upon you...

It seems like you know a bit about what you're talking about, at least in your local metagame. Why not share that knowledge with the rest of us?

 

[Master Shake]

Then it shall be done. Although I am on 0 hours of sleep right now, (and 42 hours of awakeness) I am going to a draft this Friday.

It should be quite interesteing. Packs ranging from AN, Legends, The Dark, Unglued, Urza's Saga (First prize: 3 Morphlings, Second Prize one UL BEserk - Entry $13.00), and it shall be my first tournement report. I know I am a wretched speller, so do not worry about the spell checklingness, I will be happy to. But... My meta is very odd. Michigan is a very strange place (Check the grand Prix results from the past few years.) We seem to have a much different meta then the rest of the country, furthermore, I am crazy and I play very odd decks. (Solitary Confinement, and odd White Weenie, Green Sligh) So... what I turn in should be... a tad different from what you are used to. I do not play simply aggro, but... that was what the rant was about.

I was thinking about writing something, but... I guess now I really will... providing I can remember. You can look forward to the draft report to be completed on Saturday. I will work on a few other things.

Anyway, I am much tired.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm looking forward to your report. We can always use more writers here

 

[Rooser]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Tan is the Man.

He's extremely intelligent and writes extremely well. His articles are about strategy, and he never sad aggro was bad, he simply says that it trades card advantage for tempo.

Don't let a little game theory get your undies in a bunch.

Oscar rarely play in any serious tourneys himself - he' a Type I enthusiast after all. He's not one of those mean-spirited ****heads, he just puts a lot of thought into the game. He tries to build the best deck he can build, sure, but that's no crime.

And you know what?

You can take his game theory, and apply it to your more casual decks so that you can understand what makes them work and what makes them stumble about aimlessly.

Yeah, it's more fun to build, say, a dwarf deck, because it's goofy and kinda out there. But once you've determined to make your goofball deck, don't you want to make it work as best you can? That's the whole point of strategy games anyway, to challenge yourself to think. Tan's articles are about understanding game concepts so that they can work for you, and I think he does a very good job of explaining himself - go read his Back to Basics articles if you don't believe me.

Tan is not a proponent of running around and acting like an overcompetetive oink. Tan is a proponent of thinking intelligently and I don't think that sort of attitude gets enough respect these days.

 

[EricBess]

My biggest problem with Tan (and others, I would hardly say he's the worst) is that many of these on-line writer start writing as if their opinion is the end-all and be-all. I personally avoid buying into their egos. Not saying they are not intelligent, just saying that you can disagree with someone who is intelligent and that shouldn't (and doesn't) mean that you aren't also intelligent. Some people just don't get that.

 

[Spiderman]

My biggest problem with Tan (and others, I would hardly say he's the worst) is that many of these on-line writer start writing as if their opinion is the end-all and be-all.

The thing is that I never felt that way reading his articles <shrug> The thing I can say is that his articles are pretty high level and have assumed that the reader has read past "beginning" articles of some sort or have played the game for a while, but that's okay to me. That's his particular audience; not every writer should be writing for every type of reader every time. And he does write beginning articles (or re-visits them) now and again...

 

[Rooser]

I agree Eric, I just Master Shake is overreacting, and the fact that he's only been poking around this site for maybe a month suggests to me that he hasn't necessarily put as much thought into some of his accusations as he should have.

 

[Master Shake]

ok.

 

[Rooser]

Hey, I like Master Shake!

He doesn't get grumpy as soon as somebody disagrees with him! We need more Master Shakes!

But seriously, if you want to write an Aggro Player's Bible, go ahead.

I just never got the impression that Tan thought aggro sucked - it's not what he plays, sure - but a lot of his articles actually give some insight into how to improve decks like sligh and suicide black.

And sure, he's got something of an ego, but it's the confident and assertive sort of ego, not the arrogant, self-righteous kind of ego. Confidence can sometimes sound like arrogance, but I think if you look at his writing objectively, you'll see that he's a lot more polite and inclusive than most writers.

 

[Reverend Love]

Originally posted by EricBess
My biggest problem with Tan (and others, I would hardly say he's the worst) is that many of these on-line writer start writing as if their opinion is the end-all and be-all. I personally avoid buying into their egos. Not saying they are not intelligent, just saying that you can disagree with someone who is intelligent and that shouldn't (and doesn't) mean that you aren't also intelligent. Some people just don't get that.

Word.

 

[Notepad]

The reason Tan writes about card advantage when applying to aggro decks ie because in T1, the environment has so many answers to everything, that playing permission/control/advantage is the best way to go.

What does tempo mean when a blue deck can still counter your spells, despite it not having taken a turn yet? Of course, Force of Will is just one example of T1's craziness, but if you played the power version, you'd see how aggro decks have a hard time doing what they want to do.

So many hosers.
So many board sweepers.
So many card drawers.
So many counters.

And all of it cheap. Makes it hard to be a aggro pimp.

I've tried, and yes, as Tan says, you can build budget T1 decks. You just need to keep control strategies like card advantage in mind, because if they pull one trick on your well-oiled machine, it could just be the death of you.

Please do write that aggro article as the other posters suggested. I look forward to seeing both it and your tourney report.

Cheers, and HAVE FUN, Master Shake!

-SeFRo