That's right, I've kicked the habit(almost): Magic

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Ransac, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. orgg Administrator

    Very nice to see you again, Ura.

    So who's the roommate who checks the board? I don't remember any ties to other members being brought up while you were active...

    I believe that Mike Long is the one that was accused of using that Faro shuffle... I read some kind of article about it...

    Ura, since you're knowledgeable about what to look for while watching someone shuffle, why not wright an article for us dumb Magic players? The ones out there are either very vague or very math-intensive with charts and such...
  2. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    The Faro shuffle is a little more in depth then just controlling where the cards are on the top and bottom.
    The Faro shuffle is the ability to not only riffle shuffle cards together at a perfect 1 to 1 intersection, but by doing so knowing exactly where every card is, all the time, and being able to control where every card goes automatically. The only catch is that you need to know the cards starting positions to do it. Easy with a deck of unsorted playing cards. The key is that by shuffling four times, do a couple cuts and/or false cuts to get the cards where you want them. Though distinctly more powerful in a game like Poker, it is also an excellent technique for any card game, if you can learn it. Since there are only three people in the world who can do a true Faro, I doubt Mike Long is one of them. Though stacking a deck isn't hard when you learn how, the Faro is just the best way and the least obvious way to do it because it is real shuffling, just highly controlled. Thats why it is such a dangereous technique, imagine playing in the days of Trix against a player whos deck was perfectly set up every single time you played them and there wasn't anything you could do about it because they technically didn't cheat. The best way to spot it is if they reverse bend the cards when riffling so that they shuffle going upwards rather then down towards the table. They'll make an odd sound like a pop/snap rather then the normal riffle shuffle sound.
    The only defense is the opposing players cut and any really good card sharp can easily overcome this as well in normal circumstances.

    I could have sworn that players had to offer their decks to be cut before starting play in tournaments. Though it was foolish to refuse a cut I could swear that players had to at least be given an option.

    Good to see you as well Orgg, been a long time.
    My roommate doesn't check the board, I do. He just has a pile of old cards laying around still.
    Otherwise I'd be happy to start writing again, though you'll have to show me a dumb magic player first. :p
    Most magic players tend to be quite intelligent in many regards.
    Perhaps starting a different thread and transfering the slight of hand stuff here to it would be good though as it is off topic for the thread.
    See ya soon!
  3. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    There is no excuse for cheating.
    There is no good reason to learn how to cheat, except to prevent it if you own a casino. I think Ura is the only person I've ever met / heard from that had a valid reason for doing stuff like this.
    The Faro shuffle, controlling the shuffle in any cheating.
    Nightstalker, you should be ashamed of yourself.
  4. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    You're right Isty, there is no excuse for cheating. However the best way to prevent being cheated is by knowing how to cheat and detect the methods used to do so, either that or just not play. Every game no matter how simple has cheaters. With what I know solitare isn't even safe anymore. :p
    It sucks I know, but thats the way it is. There are lots on opinions and debates about the whole subject that I don't care to get into. I know what I know and how to use it, thats all that really matters to me. The philosophy can be for those more into debating then myself.
  5. orgg Administrator

    A "pop," eh? I'll remember that... Interesting.

    Would a person's hands have any kind of mark, such as buldging tendons, that would indicate the potential for frequent 'trick' shuffles?

    Ura, if you ever want to see what happens when you do shuffle properly, try downloading Magic Online. It shuffles for you. :p
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    From a hackers experience, DON'T trust those things. MTGOL has safeguards to prevent tampering, but there are always breaks in a system.

    So thats how you always win against me Habby? I'll remember next time to get some of those $7 "crappy" card shufflers from the store next time I'm on the surface.

    Nightstalker Exterra
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Just put the butcher knife on the table, and tap it adoringly... all the time stating that it loves to meet the wrists of Faro shufflers...

    Technically - you haven't done anything wrong at this point...;)
  8. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit


    Typically anyone who is an experienced card mechanic will have hands that are used to the motions and tendon strain that are required for some deck manipulations. I'll go into many of the tells and things to watch out for with my articles.
    Hopefully I'll be able to have pictures in them too for better clairification. Can any moderators help me with that, like if I can include a few diagrams?
    Otherwise the best thing to look for in unexperienced and amatures that are trying to manipulate the cards are things like claw gripping where the fingers are all bent in a little and very ridged, shaky hands due to tendon strain on what would normally be a simple shuffle, constant staring at the cards when shuffling, rubbernecking (looking side to side and over shoulders alot), and of course many amature cheats will consistently "forget" to offer their decks to be cut.
    Thats just the tip of the iceberg however.

    Also, I do know what happens when I shuffle normally, I used to play this game once upon a time. :p
    and yes, I lost sometimes too ;)
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hey Ura, good to see you again too. Did the link from the front page article bring you here, or did you just see it in the forums?

    I also believe this was the case but a lot of players didn't (and probably still don't) like to do it; maybe they thought cutting their opponent's deck meant an implicit loss of trust from the very beginning, I don't know.
  10. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I'd have to say that when it comes to tournament play, there isn't an amount of trust you're bestowing on your opponent...

    It's competitive, instinctual, for someone to not trust an opponent...

    That's where the shuffling comes into play, but I honestly have note been across from anyone who didn't cut a deck to start a match...

    During the match, after required shuffling by spells/abilities, opponent's have chosen not to cut, but never at the start of a match...

    Don't know why - it's just that way...

    IMO...;) :cool:
  11. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Offering a cut sometimes helps my bad shuffling skillz.

    Nightstalker Exterra
  12. Apollo Bird Boy

    Mike Long was accused of stacking his deck via a pile shuffling technique, not the Faro shuffle.

    Just so you know. :)
  13. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Mike Long is also a pile of crap who rips off newbies for ninety bucks a pop.

    He deserves to be turned into dog food, but that would be torturing the dogs...
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    crap that makes a lot of money is rich crap...
  15. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Money talks and bulls--- walks.... does something that walks and talks at the same time deserve to be on Ripley's Believe it or Not?

    Man, that lucky Mike Long. I'll bet he gets Kelly Packard's autograph. Jerk!
  16. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    I personally like those people. All the more better when you trick them out of money.

    Nightstalker Exterra
  17. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    You like Mike Long??? :eek:

    I'd like him too, if only I got to read a story about him being assaulted by a pack of angry scrubs he ripped off. But I wouldn't really be liking him...rather I'd be liking what happened to him. ;)

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