Survivor: Samoa

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Spiderman, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Haven't seen 11/19 episode so I'm two behind...

    I think Russell is too arrogant. Granted, he has been approaching the game in a strategic way, making alliances with everyone and trying to eliminate anyone who suspects what he's up to, but his cockiness ("I'm in this to show how easy it is to win - I don't need the money") and his camera comments, repeatedly referring to his teammates/alliances members (mostly the females early on) as dumboink's, is just a turn-off.
  2. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I'll agree on Russell - but many a times, the arrogance has paid off... If I had to compare him to anyone - he's a total opposite of Rupert...
  3. EricBess Active Member

    Russell is like Rob - overconfident to a fault when alone, but able to really charm when in a group. I agree that he's overconfident, but I always enjoy it when the underdog manages to turn things around, so at this point, I'm not sure I want him to win, but I'm really enjoying seeing how he manages to avoid getting booted off each week.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Okay, we caught up over the weekend except for the Thankgiving show, which is just a recap anyways...

    11/12: I was a bit disappointed by the tribal council. Yeah, Russell played the immunity idol and saved himself (and the look on Dave's face was priceless), but I thought it was going to be something like people were all set to vote for one person but during the tribal talk, someone managed to tick off enough people to have the votes switch to him/her.

    Still, it's amazing how Russell keeps finding the idols without clues. I think that will (or should) change the game in the future - more players searching for idols and the show doing something different with them (unless they like players finding the idols).

    11/19: And again, Russell finds the idol after losing Dave in the woods. He really is playing the game, so unless the others have an intense dislike for him, he may win it if he makes it to the finals. I'm wondering what will happen in the reunion show after everyone's had a chance to watch and see what he said on camera and if Jeff brings his gameplay up, how he played everyone and what he really thought of everyone :)
  5. EricBess Active Member

    For some reason, the people on his tribe really respect Russell. And to be fair, Russell is intensly loyal right up to the moment where he thinks you might not be loyal to him, and then he turns 180 faster than I've seen anyone turn. Which really means he's only truely loyal to himself, but if you are loyal to him, he's going to do everything he can to protect you. Shambo is a perfect example of this.

    Honestly, though, I'm just amazed that the underdog tribe managed to fanagle things every week to the point where they are now all but in control of this game. That's only happened a couple of times in the history of survivor and I don't think it's ever been done without someone on the inside realizing they weren't as protected as they thought. For example, if Shambo were in control of the game, that would be more typical of what has happened in the past, but Russell is really pulling the strings and has been since the merge.

    If you were on Russells tribe and you knew that it was the way he played it that kept you from being picked off one-by-one, would you vote to give him the million? A lot will come down to what happens once they hit the final five, but I think Russell at this point has by far the best chance of winning.

    I started off the season not liking him and I still don't agree with a lot of how he played the game (sabotaging his own team...), but I have to say that he's earned where he is right now. Without him, his tribe would have been picked off.

    I agree, it will be interesting to see what happens when everyone else realizes just how much he was playing the game.
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, I'd amend that to him being loyal to you as long as you're useful to him. Once you'e not, you might be out... like when he thought Jaison gave up on that one challenge.

    I am indeed amazed at how Gao Gao has managed to survive... even with Shambo on their side. I still don't really understand them voting out Eric. There's always this "If I go to your side, it's gotta be a Galu member and then a Gao Gao member" but there's never a Gao Gao member! It's amazing...

    I think Russell will get a lot of votes; it's not clear from what's shown by how much everyone knows how he's pulling the strings, but I'm guessing not many right now. Even if they compare notes after they get voted off. I think Eric is still stunned at how his tribe turned against him; even he seemed to be rooting for Gao Gao in the 11/19 vote.

    So yeah, I think Russell has played an excellent game. And I'm not sure everyone will know his shenanigans until after the game is over :)
  7. EricBess Active Member

    Fair enough. I once worked for a guy like that, BTW, and honestly, I feel sorry for the guy. Great at getting things done, but ultimately no integrity and no sense of responsibility.
  8. Melkor Active Member

    I very much enjoy Russell as a T.V. character but he has almost dominated the season too much. Because Galu didn't lose enough they didn't spend much time over there so everyone on that tribe seems underdeveloped as far as screen time goes and on everyone besides Russell on Foa Foa doesn't seem all that interesting. So besides Russell, the only person who has stood out is Shambo and I'm not really a fan of hers. They've been showing Laura as the foil for Russell but I don't really have a good feel for her personality. Still, Russell has plenty of personality to fill up the void.
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Agreed, although now since the merge, there's a bit more shown. The one who went 2 weeks ago, Kelly, was the only one left who I didn't get a read on.

    Jaison was kinda "interesting" but I think the focus now is more on how Foa Foa is fighting to survive (and succeeding!) against Galu post-merge. Natalie was kinda shown as the "city girl" who is transforming to being a "survivor" in the wild. But Mick has really remained in the background despite being the tribe's leader (which is how he wanted it, judging from the recap show)

    Laura wasn't so much a "foil" as just the next target for Russell. So the question is who's next?
  10. EricBess Active Member

    I think Laura was more of a foil for Shambo than Russell. I see Dave as more of a "leader" for Galu than Mick. But I agree that there is too much focus on Russell.

    I have never liked that they always have so much focus on the tribe that is going to have someone getting kicked off that week. I know that it's because they are the ones that have interesting interaction to explain why that person ended up getting kicked off, but you can show that sort of thing after the immunity challenge is over and spend the time leading up to the immunity challenge equally between the two tribes.

    This season has been fairly bad that way because the underdogs are manageing a comeback instead of getting picked off. So I feel like I know who Dave and Laura are, but Mick is just some generic guy still and probably always will be.

    But because of Russell, I still don't really know much about, say, Natalie, who is on Foa Foa tribe.

    Here's a kicker...I just looked at the list of players and their thumbnail images from the official survivor website...and there are quite a few of these guys that honestly, I couldn't tell you if they are still on or have been voted off yet because I just don't remember them very well. Ben? Brett? Monica?

    Here's who I know is left: Dave, Jaison, Mick, Natalie, Russell, and Shambo. That's 6. Don't we still have 9 people in? There are 4 left from Foa Foa, plus Shambo and I think the last episode was when they pulled ahead, so I think 9 and I can't say for sure who the other 3 are, even staring at their (granted pre-season) photos.

    Okay, just found a picture with the whole group, and it looks like the 3 I'm missing are Brett, John, and Monica. I think Brett is the other Foa Foa member. Does anyone really feel like the've gotten to know him?
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Brett's not the other Foa Foa. They're Russell, Mick, Jaison, and Natalie.

    Brett's kinda out there in Galu like Kelly was, kinda just "another" guy at this point.
  12. EricBess Active Member

    Right...the original "leaders" were the other Russell and Mick. For some reason, I was thinking that Mick was on the other tribe because he was the leader of that tribe, but I was getting confused about which tribe that was. Since he's always been such a strong leader :rolleyes:

    Have you seen the latest episode? Russell has reached that stage of being overconfident. Okay, he probably always has been, but it's worked for him so far and I think it's now getting to the point where it may end up turning on him. Honestly, if there is one thing I've learned watching this show season after season, it's that it's not a good idea to leave someone feeling like they aren't "in the loop" when they aren't very stable to begin with. How many times to you see one person switch back and forth and never get voted out until the final 5 or so? Shambo is potentially in a really good position (though I don't think she's smart enough to take advantage of it).

    Honestly, the best way to keep people happy is to let them think that they are in control of the game. Russell is too paranoid that John had a piece of irrelevant information. Now, Shambo becomes a wild card again because even if she still thinks she is "in" with you, she knows that you don't trust her anymore enough to tell her the plan. That's a dangerous move.

    And I cannot believe how complacent Dave is. Russell comes to him and for all practical purposes, tells him that the Foa Foa vote might be split, so he better vote with them for John or he will get voted out. They already know that Shambo is the swing vote, so their 3 more votes for John won't matter and it's hardly going to get them any further in the long run. Honestly, the best plan for Dave would have been to convince the Galu 4 to vote for Russell.

    We have the added information of knowing that Shambo had her little dream and is voting for Dave no matter what, but Dave could very easily have realized from Russell's comment that there was at least 1 "Foa Foa" member still voting for him. And that leaves 4 votes for John, and whatever 4 votes Galu wants to throw out there to make a tie. And if that swing vote feels like they have just been betrayed or left out of the loop, there is at least a decent chance that Shambo would have turned and voted out Russell. Worse case scenario is that John goes anyway...but at least you aren't just rolling over and playing dead.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Haven't seen the 12/3 show yet (and might not for a while, we have some stuff going on for the next two weeks so it's highly doubtful we'll be able to watch any TV :( ) so I skipped everything past your first paragraph :)
  14. Melkor Active Member

    Brett is the biggest cypher in perhaps the history of the show. Has anybody ever gotten less screen time than him? He was basically completely absent from the most recent show. They didn't show him talking to anybody or anybody talking to him. He didn't go deep in the immunity challenge. I don't think he even bought anything at the auction. Has a young guy ever done the under the radar strategy before?
  15. EricBess Active Member

    So I'm always a sucker for the underdog. I love to watch the show when someone really has their work cut out for them in getting people to realize that they aren't as safe as they think they are and that they would be better off forming a new alliance.

    I think that's one of the reasons why I really didn't like Dave because he had so many opportunities, but basically just ignored them or went along with the crowd.

    Something I'll never understand in this game, though, is the unanimous vote. It seems to happen all the time. One group is "in charge" and the other group is getting picked off one at a time, but rather than fight it, the people on the group getting picked off end up all voting with the group in charge on the hopes of getting taken a little bit farther in the game. So what??? You are still going to get picked off. It's not like the people in charge are going to suddenly decide that they should take you to the final 5 instead of the group they've been loyal to the whole time.

    So the trick is to 1) keep fighting, and 2) figure out who the people on the outskirts of the alliance are and get them to switch.

    I'm not sure what I think about last night's episode. I think Shambo is incredibly loyal to Russell right now and Russell knows it. The problem is, Russell also knows that his core alliance is with the Foa Foa 4. In my opinion, cutting an outside player out of the alliance early before they realize they are an outside player, is a good thing.

    And now it is getting more complicated because three of the four are starting to wonder if Russell is even stable with their alliance or if he plans to take Shambo all the way because nobody likes her. And his yelling at Nat and Jaison about him being rich is weakening his case. Monica may have been voted out, but I think she is right that she's stirring the pot on the way out.

    Brett may not be such a cypher anymore. He apears to be the only remaining member of Galu who still wants to play the game. Too bad he didn't turn on the strategy in time to save Monica as this is going to make it harder for him, but there are cracks in Foa Foa and he's really starting to work them.

    Personally, I doubt he's going to be able to do much without winning immunity every time at this point, but I for one would really like to see it happen.
  16. EricBess Active Member

    They still have 7 players left, but only 2 more episodes. Last week, they had 2 1/2 hour episodes instead of a 1 hour episode. It's almost like they suddenly realized that the end of the season is upon them and they need to cram the episodes in fast. I can't say that I'm very happy about that. Feels like nothing more than poor planning to me :(

    I mean come on...They normally start with 18 (this time they started with 20, granted) and with 3 episodes left, half of the players are still around?
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, we saw the 12/03 show but unfortunately, I accidently saw the winner on the news site I'm on (my homepage, comcast). So now I'm curious to see how the winner won and not who I thought might win from previews :)

    So regarding EricBess's comments from post #52, yeah, I totally agree with everythingn you said. I think Galu has pretty much given up and are demoralized since Foa Foa just keeps knocking them out. I mean, in the beginning, when John said he voted Laura out because he didn't want to risk being eliminated? And he was "trusting" Russell that the next to go would be a Foa Foa member? C'mon... the more Galu are eliminated, the more Foa Foa gels together. And while there's a slight chance he could be eliminated, there's a 50/50 chance that someone from Foa Foa (which I now include Shambo) would be eliminated, thus preserving Galu's precious lead. It's just amazing...

    And tribal was funny when Shambo looked all confused and Laura whispered that she (Shambo) didn't know what happened... Shambo is just getting annoying. Ugh.

    So hopefully we'll see the next shows this week sometime... my wife wants space on the DVR to tape holiday shows :)
  18. EricBess Active Member

    Well, I got my numbers off by one in my last post. There was actually 1 fewer person than I thought.

    If you already know the winner, then I guess I might as well say that I'm happy about the way it went down. Also - yes, it is interesting to see how you got from point A to point B, but there probably won't be too many surprises along the way. Knowing the outcome, you will probably be able to predict the outcome of each step, but maybe not. I'll try not to say too much.

    I will say that when all is said and done, the person most influential in Nat winning was probably the one person that she was most responsible for getting rid of. I think there is one moment in the final tribal counsel where about half the jury switched their vote, but I won't give away more than that.
  19. Melkor Active Member

    Spoilers ahead


    I don't know, I'm always of the opinion that everybody already knows who they are voting for at the final tribal counsel and that almost nobody ever changes their vote. I don't think Eric, Brett, Jaison, Laura, Monica, or Kelly were ever going to vote for Russell. Obviously we didn't see enough during the show to realize how much Jaison didn't like Russell but it was apparent at the reunion show. You've got to think John held a grudge. So to conclude, I think that this was a season that there were a lot of people who took losing personally and Russell's scorched earth policy left him on the outside looking in.
  20. EricBess Active Member

    Maybe. I just got the impression from the final tribal that a lot of people felt like Natalie rode coat tails and didn't deserve it. At least one person expressed it directly and multiple people implied it. I just didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly impressed with how she played the game and everyone seemed to feel that Russell's manipulation of events got them to that point.

    I'm not sure what gave you the impression that that group was never going to vote for Russell. We know Shambo voted for Russell, but there was a second vote for Russell that they didn't show. I don't remember exactly what was said, but I got the impression that Jaison was planning on voting for Russell after his questioning. Basically - I'm upset that I got backstabbed, but you were the one that played the game.

    When they raised hands to ask who would have voted for Russell had he brought Jaison instead, he got the majority. Obviously when they ask that, there are a lot of other things that would have changed, so you can never know for sure, but are you certain that none of those raised their hands at that point?

    From what I recall of the season, most people felt like they had some sort of bond with Russell, even after they were voted out, and it wouldn't have been until they were sitting down and watching at home that they would have realized just how far he actually had gone with things.

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