Stupor or Coercion

[cbearsbro]

If you had to pick one, which would it be? Both are 2B. Given a choice, which would you put in a deck. Stupor: Force opponent to discard one at random and one of their choice.

Coercion: Pick a card from opponent's hand and force them to discard it.

I don't know..... 2 cards v 1, but with coercion you actually get to pick the card they toss. I've had big guys taken out with coercion.

Any opinions? Not a poll question really. Just curious what others think. Any other good discard cards for less or same cost in Black?

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

Definitely Coercion. Don't forget Unmask. Also, since you'll probably be playing B/U anyway, try Seer's Vision - my pick for most overlooked card in Invasion.

 

[Darsh]

Doesn't Coercion cost 3B?
Anyway I prefer Coercion but Duress is great too.

 

[Hetemti]

Coersion. I'd rather pull their power card that two support cards.

 

[Apollo]

Out of those, I prefer Stupor.

But once you've used Hymn to Tourach (or Mind Twist!) a few times, it's hard to go back to the "lesser" discard spells...

 

[Hetemti]

My group began to...frown upon...my use of Hymn. So I switched to Hippies. They didn't like that, either.

 

[Zadok001]

Stupor is an old favorite of mine... Hymn is infamous, and Stupor is the 'fixed' (in the vetrinary sense of the word) Hymn. Basically, I go for card advantage over card quality.

 

[cbearsbro]

Originally posted by Hetemti

My group began to...frown upon...my use of Hymn. So I switched to Hippies. They didn't like that, either.

I've heard "hippies" a lot when people are talking about excellent cards. What exactly is it? Is it short for something else?

< frantically scrambling for piece of paper to write it down

 

[Duster]

Hypnotic Spectre....
One of black's biggest jerks


Dustin

 

[Spiderman]

Hypnotic Specter
2B
2/2
Flying. When this deals damage (not sure if it's combat or any 'old damage; I don't have crystalkeep up right now) to an opponent, that opponent discards a card at random.

Coming out first turn with the help of a Ritual, this could be pretty intimidating if you didn't have quick removal like Swords or Bolt.

 

[Ransac]

Definarely Stupor. Just that much better.



Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[lilpinhead]

i dont really play black because i just cant seem to get the hang of building a decent deck, but i would definatly pick coercion.

 

[Zadok001]

Hippy costs 1BB, not 2B.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

If you are using it in a discard deck that has a lot of other discard ready, stupor could be better, because while it isn't very useful to make them lose two support cards, it is if they've lost their main force already. However, in a deck which only uses a little bit of discard, Coercion is probably better as a disruptive measure.

 

[lilpinhead]

when your playing a discard deck and your opponent has no hand because youve madie him/her discard it what the heck do you do? i was wondering what kind of creatuers people think are good in a discard deck.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Hypnotic Specter would be good, as a 2/2 flier for 1BB is good anyway. Ravenous Rats is good mainly because it can generate card advantage, although it is rather small. The other creatures truly depend upon the personal preference of the person playing the deck. Certainly cards like Juzam Djinn, Phyrexian Negator, and Phyrexian Scuta would be amazing, but their use depends upon whether the player is afraid of disruptive mesaures on the part of the other person. Avatar of Woe could go in the more expensive decks. Often discard decks have blue as well, because counterspelling and bouncing both work well with discard. In such a deck, Avatar of Will and Doomsday Specter are both very useful. Another approach that seems less common is to use black weenie creatures as a main offensive force and to use discard as backup. That has seemed to work very well for me.

 

[Cateran Emperor]

Well, TICM described it pretty well. You can break discard down two ways:

1. Straight out hand denial. Feel free to splash blue. Your kill card is almost certainly a Specter (or ghost in the case of Apparition, or Knight in the case of Order of Yawgie, or...oh heck. Just things that force discards with combat damage okay?) The reasoning is simple: each hit takes another way out of the Specter lock away, eventually taking out every possible option. If they have no cards, the Specter keeps it that way, your opponent is down to the top of his deck to win. One little 1/1 creature can carry the day since he'll have no opposition in the end. These decks prefer to use mass discard such as Stupor and Hymn as opposed to expensive selected discard such as Unmask (although Duress is always put in. ALWAYS)

Creatures that work:
Hypnotic Specter
Order of Yawgmoth
Chilling Apparition
Doomsday Specter
Blazing Specter
Abyssal Specter

2. Suicide Black. This involves using the cheapest selective discard possible mana wise, then using fat black creatures with a drawback that is removed by your opponent's lack of a hand.

Creatures that work:
Phyrexian Negator
Juzam Djinn
Phyrexian Scuta
Skittering Skirge
Skittering Horror

There are a lot of other ways to do discard, but I like playing it all. Discard is my personal preference when it comes to building a deck.

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

you mentioned doomsday specter, boy do they work, by far the best creature of its kind

 

[Spiderman]

Zadok: See, I told you I wasn't using crystalkeep at that time

lilpinhead: Besides the strategies mentioned above, in direct answer to your question you just keep hitting him with some creature and since he has to top-deck an answer (assuming you're not playing blue also to counter it), the clock is on your opponent. Also, you could put out The Rack (or one of its variants) to deal more and faster pain.

 

[Istanbul]

Honestly, I love Coercion...nothing's quite like looking at your opponent's hand, seeing he only has two mana, and taking away his least expensive spell.

Still, Coercion is best when backed up with other spells that snatch up more than one card at a time. Stupor, Bog Down, and Coercion all cost three mana, and all are pretty good. If only you could get reliable Ritual power...oh well.

(BTW, you want good? Late-game kickered Rushing River, immediately followed by Bog Down. Had someone use that on me in draft. 4UB, sacrifice a land: Destroy two target nonland permanents...)