Spawnbroker

[Limited]

I've already had a deck around Spawnbroker for a while (an all Ravnica deck) which worked pretty well.. but I felt the Spawnbroker deserved something better..

I present to you:

Creatures (23)
4x Izzet Guildmage
4x Mistblade Shinobi
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Spawnbroker
3x Steamcore Weird
4x Surveilling Sprite
Spells (16)
4x Grafted Wargear
4x Peel from Reality
4x Remand
4x Telling Time
Lands (21)
17x Island
4x Izzet Boilerworks

Peel from Reality + Spawnbroker is just awesome.. but the Grafted Wargear is a cheap way to give a creature of your +3 power. I've already traded a Izzet Guildmage for a Bringer of the Red Dawn... (Unfortunately, you can't sacrifice a creature you gave away, but its still funny)

Any comments or suggestions?

 

[Photon Eater]

I like the synergy between Spawnbroker/Steamcore Weird, and the ninjas.

Couldn't you attach Grafted Wargear to a creature, trade it with the Broker, and then later pay 0 to unattach the Wargear, killing your trade?

Finally, a pointless comment: I just love Telling Time. I don't know why. It just makes me happy when I see it.

 

[Limited]

I put it together pretty quickly and was afraid I was overdoing it with eight ninja's but it has worked so far..

If I trade (when I trade) a creature with Wargear, and move the Wargear of that creature I am supposed to sacrifice it.. but you can't sacrifice stuff that isn't yours, so it lives.

 

[Force of Will Smith]

but dont you still control the wargear, and are able to equip it to another creature you control? you could easily do that as a sorcery during your precombat main phase or postcombat main phase.

if someone steals a creature you control with a bonesplitter on it, you could always just pay the 1 to move it to a creature of yours later in the game. How is this any different? I think this combo is gold.

It also doesn't disrupt any 187 abilities like:
umbilicus+gilded drake (not 2) or
spawnbroker+wargear to himself, which wouldnt work.

 

[Mooseman]

If I trade (when I trade) a creature with Wargear, and move the Wargear of that creature I am supposed to sacrifice it.. but you can't sacrifice stuff that isn't yours, so it lives.

Actually, the creature is sacrificed. Wargear doesn't say, "you" or "creature you control", just that the crature it unattaches from is scarificed. This works really well. The sacrifice is not part of the cost, but triggered by the unattaching of Wargear.

 

[Limited]

It is indeed triggered by unattaching the Wargear, but the Wargear is mine, therefore it is my triggered ability, instructing me to sacrifice the creature.

Which I can't because it is not mine.

If your Grafted Wargear somehow ends up on an opponent's creature and it then becomes unattached from that creature, you won't be able to sacrifice that creature because you don't control it.

I was thinking about replacing it with Vulshok Gauntlets which actually keeps the creature from untapping. Kinda nice when I trade something, but the equipcost (3) is giving me second thoughts. Also, I can't go for Surveilling Sprite beatdown

 

[Mooseman]

I was wrong. The FAQ does say that, but I'm not sure why as it's a triggered effect not a cost. I totally forgot about that from the Fifth Dawn pre-release..... dang it.......
Still doesn't make sense.

 

[Limited]

If it were a cost ("Sacrifice the creature Wargear is attached to: Attach Wargear to another creature") I wouldn't even be able to pay the cost if I didn't control the creature it is attached to.

It simply in the definition of sacrifice: you can't sacrifice something if it aint yours.

 

[Oversoul]

It simply in the definition of sacrifice: you can't sacrifice something if it aint yours.

Some of us can: http://www.rotten.com/library/death/human-sacrifice/

 

[Limited]

 

[Force of Will Smith]

you can still use the equip cost. It's still your equipment.
Dangelo ruled in my favor

check it.

http://www.crystalkeep.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1312#1312

 

[Limited]

I can still attach the Equipment to another one of my creatures; I just can't sacrifice the creature I just unattached it from

 

[Limited]

check it.

http://www.crystalkeep.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1312#1312

 

[Force of Will Smith]

Well obviously, yeah. Thats printed on wargear itself. so im confuzzled.

That wasnt the question. The rule in question was using the equip ability while it was on a creature your opponent currently owned.

 

[Limited]

Now I see what went wrong.

The original question was

Couldn't you attach Grafted Wargear to a creature, trade it with the Broker, and then later pay 0 to unattach the Wargear, killing your trade?

I answered that you could unattach the Wargear, but you just couldn't sacrifice it.
Then, I missed your next remark asking if you could still use the Equipment, because I thought it was obvious. Of course you can still equip something else' its your equipment.

When you posted that you can still use the equip-cost, at first I thought you referred to my imaginary card

("Sacrifice the creature Wargear is attached to: Attach Wargear to another creature")

so I clicked the link to see if this was true. There I read that you still assumed you'd kill the creature from which you unattach the Wargear, which isn't true.

So, if you were allowed to use the equip ability was never a question. The real question was what happens when you remove your Wargear of an opponents creature. In contrary to what you posted on crystalkeep, it doesn't kill it.

 

[Force of Will Smith]

i would think the part where the opponent's creature dying be a given...
i mean grafted wargear says

Whenever Grafted Wargear becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent.

it doesnt say your permanent.. just that if it becomes separated for any reason it becomes killed.. and isnt that what dangelo said?

 

[Mooseman]

i would think the part where the opponent's creature dying be a given...
i mean grafted wargear says

Whenever Grafted Wargear becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent.

it doesnt say your permanent.. just that if it becomes separated for any reason it becomes killed.. and isnt that what dangelo said?

Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+2.
Whenever Grafted Wargear becomes unattached from a creature, sacrifice that creature.
Equip {o0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)


From the comprehensive rules
Sacrifice
To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the in-play zone directly to its owner’s graveyard. A player can’t sacrifice something that isn’t a permanent, or something that’s a permanent he or she doesn’t control. If an effect instructs a player to sacrifice a permanent that he or she doesn’t control, nothing happens. Sacrificing a permanent doesn’t destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can’t affect it.

from the FAQ
* If your Grafted Wargear somehow ends up on an opponent's creature and it then becomes unattached from that creature, you won't be able to sacrifice that creature because you don't control it.

I take it that since you control the Grafted Wargear, you control the sacrifice and thus you can't sacrifice the creature you don't control.
I got this wrong at first.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Yes, but D'Angelo (and pinballwzd) were wrong. Check the FAQ.

(- Steve -)