W
war?
Guest
i want to know peoples opinions on whether or not atomic bombs should have been built. They are a terrible weapon which could destroy the planet, but would we have won the war if we hadn't bombed japan?
We would have won the war but there would have been a heck of a lot more casualties on the US side (who knows if an invasion of Japan would have caused the same amount of casualties as the Bomb).
I would hazard that it probably should not have been built but not sure if the non-military applications of the splitting of the atom (such as atomic energy) would have been worth it anyway.
I would hazard that it probably should not have been built but not sure if the non-military applications of the splitting of the atom (such as atomic energy) would have been worth it anyway.
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Reverend Love
Guest
Of course atomic weapons shouldn't have been built, that way countries such as....oh the U.S. and Russia could have successfully started WW3 and devastated the entire European continent and much of South East Asia as well. Other countries in nuclear stalemates like India and Pakistan wouldn't have to worry about mutual destruction either and could rape and pillage one another at will!
I think everyone can agree on the immeasurable suffering ICBMs have caused sitting quietly in their silos.
/end sarcasm
P.S. Nuclear Power is a good thing. Compare the relatively small amount of waster compared to power produced using alternative sources of energy, coal, oil, hydro and you'll see a stark waste to energy difference.
I think everyone can agree on the immeasurable suffering ICBMs have caused sitting quietly in their silos.
/end sarcasm
P.S. Nuclear Power is a good thing. Compare the relatively small amount of waster compared to power produced using alternative sources of energy, coal, oil, hydro and you'll see a stark waste to energy difference.
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Notepad
Guest
The nukes were da bomb, yo!!! Hell yes they needed to be made. Without them, we wouldn't have that little gem of a phrase from the previous sentence.
That alone makes it all worth the lives lost. Plus, I hear Nagasaki is like a cool tourist destination now. How awesome is that? Easy-bake hot dogs and all that, what with the microwaves flowing freely about. Dude, awesome!!!
Plus, without the nukes, the Japanese would be missing the whole "we're obsessed with post-apocalyptic themes" vibe. If they hadn't been bombed, all their anime and mange would probably feature an apocalype by raiding cockroaches in American uniforms, rather than awesome explosion drawings!!! DOOD!!!
See, it was all worth it. Every bit.
That alone makes it all worth the lives lost. Plus, I hear Nagasaki is like a cool tourist destination now. How awesome is that? Easy-bake hot dogs and all that, what with the microwaves flowing freely about. Dude, awesome!!!
Plus, without the nukes, the Japanese would be missing the whole "we're obsessed with post-apocalyptic themes" vibe. If they hadn't been bombed, all their anime and mange would probably feature an apocalype by raiding cockroaches in American uniforms, rather than awesome explosion drawings!!! DOOD!!!
See, it was all worth it. Every bit.
M
mythosx
Guest
Sefro, the eternal M.A.D. supporter. Hey anyone see that cool hammer and sickle shirt on gameskins.com? I need to pick me up one.
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Notepad
Guest
Sign me up for two, please. And, um...make sure it also has the words:
"THE BOMB, YO!" on the back
"THE BOMB, YO!" on the back
D
Doombringer
Guest
I think the U.S. had right to bomb Hiroshima and it did end the war, but bombing Nagasaki too was overkill. The Japanese could have seen all the same stuff with just one nuclear halocaust as they could have with two. I think the reason that the U.S. bombed Hiroshima in the first place (instead of an invasion) was to sort of flex their muscles. It sort of said "Pick a fight with us and we'll absolutely annialate you." It worked, the Japanese didn't persist and the war was pretty much stopped early. Then they bombed Nagasaki, and it was rubbing it in gone bad.
By the way if I mixed up which city got bombed first or anything, sorry.
By the way if I mixed up which city got bombed first or anything, sorry.
D
DÛke
Guest
...there is no purpose in talking about what "should" have been. Let's face it, we will never know what "might" have been without The Bomb. Maybe it shouldn't have been invented, but...who cares now? The knowledge is there. It will be utilized to its best. Some people "shouldn't" have been born. Some things "shouldn't" have happened. Idle talk. My advice? Think about what ought to be the case, believe in it even if you are to be deemed a criminal or an outlaw, believe in it eternally, and enforce it with all your will upon everyone and everything. But, meanwhile, keep an open mind, and most importantly, keep a working mind, and see if what you think really "ought" to be the case...and if the answer is yes!...than keep on believing and keep on enforcing your will upon the world...and if the answer is no, change what you must change, and enforce your new beliefs on the world. That would conclude my advice. One more thing, please don't sit down in your home all day thinking that the world is going to change itself. Think, belive, act, and enforce...
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mythosx
Guest
Indeed let's all go out and bomb people....
wait... thats not right...I mean lets all go out and purchase atom bombs....
Wait, thats not right either.
This issue comes down to the age old question just because we can does that mean we should? It is still very applicable in many different things today. Genetic manipulation, nuclear power plants, federal survailence and, of course, Britney Spears and N'sync.
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Notepad
Guest
Even after both bombs, there was still a lot of resistance to the idea of surrender by the Japanese. Then again, they have lots of cool anime now, so what are they complaining about? A few lives here and there is certainly worth it when you consider it spawned things like the opening to Akira!
Wait, did I go too far again?
Wait, did I go too far again?
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mythosx
Guest
wow, That was about as offensive as the simpsons episode. I hope no japanese are reading this. I am in Japan right now, and will promptly distract them.
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Notepad
Guest
Hey, since you're there, please let them know: If they need more inspiration for anything, our president is more than happy to bomb them into next week.
They need it, too. When are they gonna make Akira II?
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mythosx
Guest
hahahaha...sigh...funny..
Hey you know what? This is a brief message to all those fanboys out there. Japanese aren't very creative. Their cartoons are one trick ponies. The present psuedo-intellectual ideas that they have no real grasp of. Oh yeah, Japanese tv sucks on a whole.
Hey you know what? This is a brief message to all those fanboys out there. Japanese aren't very creative. Their cartoons are one trick ponies. The present psuedo-intellectual ideas that they have no real grasp of. Oh yeah, Japanese tv sucks on a whole.
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Notepad
Guest
Everybody knew that already! Why do you think the cyborgs having the deep thought always get interrupted *right before* they come to a stunning, and philosophy-shattering conclusion? Oh yeah, right, because the writers couldn't figure out anything more to say than general observations on life.
As for creativity--Japanese Manga copies American Comics, and American Comics copy Japanese Manga, and ...
As for creativity--Japanese Manga copies American Comics, and American Comics copy Japanese Manga, and ...
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Astranbrulth
Guest
Ha! An interesting thread at last!
Well, in the context of the Second World War ... I agree almost completely with Doombringer. The Japanese were *very* tough opponents in WW2, and some estimates of US casualties ranged up to 500 000 in the case of an invasion of the Japanese homeland. So, fair enough that the US wanted to spare itself that sort of grief. The second bomb was overkill, though. The Japanese had had a very short time to consider what was an important decision (unconditional surrnder is always kinda important) and really, not enough time was given to them.
I personally reckon that the US just wanted to test the second bomb as well, to see how well it would work (the types used were different).
As to whether the Bomb should have been invented (and nuclear power, for that matter) ... well, yes, without a doubt. It is just that people are oink and automatically turn potential useful tools to weapons of domination. That is why there is debate about whether it is 'good' or not. It is the same as a gun ... it can be used to hunt food or kill your neighbour ... but the object itself is neutral.
Eventually nukes will be indispensible for things like asteroid deflection, power generation on spacecraft and so forth. Not to mention that the world's oil is running out fast, and nuclear power will have to take a large share of the energy burden, at least in the medium term. Reverend Love is so right about that point he made.
Duke -- Hi! That advice is good advice. I just wish that more people would heed it.
SeFRo -- Nice point about the deep thinking cyborg. That is exactly why Sci Fi is so monotonous and, ultimately is just about human interest stories in costumes. It is very hard to write good Sci Fi, because the writer must extrapolate greatly and do a lot of thinking about logical consequences of technology, ideas etc. It is quite hard and most people are too stupid to see the difference between the genuine article and Star Trek type stuff. So we get the 'pulp' Sci Fi dominating.
Sigh. I fell into the same trap myself, starting a book with all these awesome battles etc ... but when I had to extrapolate the technology that would logically be available in the year 10000 whatever, not to mention philosophical ideas .... I realised that it was the usual pulp trash that I was writing and dropped it.
-- Astranbrulth --
Well, in the context of the Second World War ... I agree almost completely with Doombringer. The Japanese were *very* tough opponents in WW2, and some estimates of US casualties ranged up to 500 000 in the case of an invasion of the Japanese homeland. So, fair enough that the US wanted to spare itself that sort of grief. The second bomb was overkill, though. The Japanese had had a very short time to consider what was an important decision (unconditional surrnder is always kinda important) and really, not enough time was given to them.
I personally reckon that the US just wanted to test the second bomb as well, to see how well it would work (the types used were different).
As to whether the Bomb should have been invented (and nuclear power, for that matter) ... well, yes, without a doubt. It is just that people are oink and automatically turn potential useful tools to weapons of domination. That is why there is debate about whether it is 'good' or not. It is the same as a gun ... it can be used to hunt food or kill your neighbour ... but the object itself is neutral.
Eventually nukes will be indispensible for things like asteroid deflection, power generation on spacecraft and so forth. Not to mention that the world's oil is running out fast, and nuclear power will have to take a large share of the energy burden, at least in the medium term. Reverend Love is so right about that point he made.
Duke -- Hi! That advice is good advice. I just wish that more people would heed it.
SeFRo -- Nice point about the deep thinking cyborg. That is exactly why Sci Fi is so monotonous and, ultimately is just about human interest stories in costumes. It is very hard to write good Sci Fi, because the writer must extrapolate greatly and do a lot of thinking about logical consequences of technology, ideas etc. It is quite hard and most people are too stupid to see the difference between the genuine article and Star Trek type stuff. So we get the 'pulp' Sci Fi dominating.
Sigh. I fell into the same trap myself, starting a book with all these awesome battles etc ... but when I had to extrapolate the technology that would logically be available in the year 10000 whatever, not to mention philosophical ideas .... I realised that it was the usual pulp trash that I was writing and dropped it.
-- Astranbrulth --
R
Reverend Love
Guest
Astran and Doombringer
The U.S. bombed Nagasaki because the Japanese weren't going to give up. They mistook our first nuclear bomb for another fire bombing raid. The reports that only a single bomb had been dropped hadn't even reached the decision maker (the emperor)...it was at that point mere rumors and speculation that a single boom-boom was released. Bombing Nagasaki cleared up the confusion for the Japanese and nail shut the continued idea of war. And no, bombing the Japanese wasn't a half-hearted experiment. It was a move of desperation to end what was becoming a blood bath on both sides.
Google Iwa Jima Casualties and you'll see what I'm talking about.
The U.S. bombed Nagasaki because the Japanese weren't going to give up. They mistook our first nuclear bomb for another fire bombing raid. The reports that only a single bomb had been dropped hadn't even reached the decision maker (the emperor)...it was at that point mere rumors and speculation that a single boom-boom was released. Bombing Nagasaki cleared up the confusion for the Japanese and nail shut the continued idea of war. And no, bombing the Japanese wasn't a half-hearted experiment. It was a move of desperation to end what was becoming a blood bath on both sides.
Google Iwa Jima Casualties and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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Astranbrulth
Guest
Reverend Love -- To be quite honest, I am not super clued up about the Hiroshima / Nagasaki story, especially about the decision making process leading to the surrender. Have you any particular sources you could refer me to? I had always been under the impression that only about a day or two had elapsed before the second bomb had been set off.
-- Bruno --
-- Bruno --
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Doombringer
Guest
I think that even if the U.S. didn't mean it at the time, the long term reaction to the whole bombing session was that not many countrys wanted to war against the U.S. in fear of being bombed or overkilled. Also, concening the bomb-drop motives discussion, maybe, just maybe, the reason was to end the war, stop casualties, test new weapons, and show the U.S.'s overbearing power all in one! (and maybe to spice up japanese comics too . . .)
(and maybe to spice up japanese comics too . . .)
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Notepad
Guest
I think that if we bomb part of USA with a nuke, scifi and comics in this country will improve. Maybe the quality of the stories won't improve, but think of all the cool Akira-like openings we'll have!
Anybody up for this task should start now. I got a microwave. Anybody got some plastic forks and duct tape? Let's get this friggen project rolling!
Anybody up for this task should start now. I got a microwave. Anybody got some plastic forks and duct tape? Let's get this friggen project rolling!