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The lady has outdone herself again. This article makes Dangers look perfectly safe in its denouncement of the fantasy gaming subculture. Introducing:

The Original Article

Role-Playing Games & Popular Occultism

Open doors to forbidden realms and spiritual seductions

By Berit Kjos - February 3, 2003

1. "Softening up" for occult revival

2. Pagan fantasies join the digital explosion

3. The global message behind role-playing magic

4. Chaos magic and dark arts

5. Your choice: myth or truth?




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"Video games producers are getting smarter. They lead you to sites where you can be instructed by a real life occultist. You talk to hardcore people."1 A former member of the occult Order of the Golden Dawn

"The magical occult practices of the ancients aren't just for the ancients. The spirits involved are eternal beings, and they are just as active today as they were a thousand years ago, as is their worship.... The toys children play with depict powerful creatures of the darkness. Now, games give explicit instruction in the rituals and methods of the occult. Indeed, gaming tournaments are prime times for occultists to find 'recruits' with exceptional ability."2 N.R.K.

"Satan is not simply trying to draw people to the dark side of a good versus evil conflict. Actually, he is trying to eradicate the gap between himself and God, between good and evil, altogether."3 Ray Yungen, A Time of Departing.

"Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11


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"What I learned in secret is now everywhere," said Peter, a former occultist.1 In a recent telephone conversation, he explained how today's children and youth explore occult worlds and experience magical thrills that seem harmless. The lure of secret powers -- especially when experienced through role-playing games that immerse players in mythical worlds and virtual experiences -- stir obsessive curiosity about forbidden forces. And, as they captivate their young fans, they fast erode the traditional values that built safe boundaries and brought warnings of danger.

Peter knows this all too well. He was active in occult work for about 30 years. As an occultist he was initiated to the level of a 10o-1o, and was a Temple Master in the "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" best known for its most infamous member, Aleister Crowley. Peter studied and mastered a number of other systems of ritual magick.

"I did everything God considers an abomination in Deuteronomy 18” he told me. Then he described the captivating power of role-playing games -- one of today's most enticing pathways to spiritual bondage.

"Are you familiar with aviation simulators?" he asked. "They simulate the inside of a cockpit in flying a plane. You can learn how to fly a plane in a flight simulator. But in a simulator there is no risk. All personal danger has been removed. When you play these occult games, you're doing the exact same thing that you would be dong in a flight simulator. No risk."



So why not try the real thing?



Many players do. "These kids are easily drawn into occult groups through [role-playing] tournaments," said Peter. "When kids transition from simulation -- when they actually experience the POWER that is available to them through the rituals they are learning to perform under the guise of 'fantasy' -- that power becomes like an addiction and they get hooked. But they don't see that."



"I could walk up to any of these teens who showed promise," he continued, "and I could put my hand on their shoulder, look them in the eye and say. 'If you get a rush from this, how would like to do it for real?' No one has ever answered no."



"Softening up" for occult revival



Why would our nation, so richly blessed by God, embrace the occult? What caused this amazing change in values? How could it happen so fast!



Actually, our nation had already been "softened up" by the 1960s when the rising rebellion against God erupted into public view. The century-old pursuit of social solidarity based on Georg Hegel's occult philosophy and consensus process had been an effective tool for change.



Hegel's pattern for "group thinking" denied God's absolute truths and trained people to adapt to "continual change" and group consensus. By year 2000, it had been embraced by schools, corporations, community organizations, mainline churches and political structures across America. Through the global media, people around the world have caught Hegel's vision of spiritual synthesis --an enticing blend of spiritual illusions and practices that appeal to our capricious human nature.



Hegel studied alchemy, Kabbalah (also caballa, kaballa, etc.) and theosophy. He "read widely on Mesmerism, psychic phenomena, dowsing, precognition and sorcery. He publicly associated himself with known occultists.... He believed in an Earth Spirit and corresponded with colleagues about the nature of magic.... He aligned himself, informally, with 'Hermetic' societies such as the Freemasons and the Rosicrucians" and embraced their symbolic systems of sacred circles, mystical triangles and astrological signs.5 See excerpts from the book pictured.



Considering Hegel's occult connections, it's not surprising that his teachings would undermine Biblical faith and all opposing facts. Nor is it strange that the postmodern generation has been largely immunized against genuine Christianity. After all, Hegel's revolutionary dialectic process was the center-piece of Soviet brainwashing. It effectively purged God's unchanging truths and filled the vacuum with evolving "truths" and enticing dreams.



While Communist leaders embraced Hegel's process, they ignored his occult beliefs. In contrast, the Western world began to restore those pagan roots long before revolutionary baby-boomers began shouting their demands for sensual freedom and earth-centered spirituality. [See Saving the Earth] In other words, the sixties didn't initiate this radical change; the turmoil of the sixties was the result of the psycho-social program of "re-learning" which had begun to transform America decades earlier.



As the old moral and spiritual boundaries were torn down, the mainstream media preached tolerance and acceptance of all kinds of forbidden thrills. Before long, occult secrets emerged from their centuries-old closets and claimed their place in mainstream entertainment.



In his 1998 article titled Popular Occultism, Alexis Dolgorukii shows how the world of fantasy complemented the rise of modern and postmodern occultism:

“During the 1960's, thanks to the works of J.R.R. Tolkien... there began a tremendous public fascination with what is called ‘Swords and Sorcery Fantasy’ and that fascination has continued and intensified to this day.... A vast number of films and computer games and arcade games echo this same preoccupation....

“[This ‘popular occultism’ appeared during 1870-1925]... The primary ‘movers and shakers’... were people like Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Eliphas Levi... Rudolph Steiner, Aleister Crowley, A.E. Waite... Alice Bailey, Annie Besant....

“Whether we speak of ‘Theosophy’, or The Golden Dawn, or The Orderae Templi Orientalis (O.T.O.)... or any other of the truly enormous number of tiny groups all enraptured by the same glamour, what it is with which we are truly dealing is ‘Popular Occultism’; and it is just as much ‘Swords and Sorcery Fantasy’ as the works of Tolkien....” http://www.parascience.org/popular.htm

Peter was associated with OTO as well as with the Golden Dawn. Founded by Aleister Crowley, its teachings -- like those of other occult 'orders' -- beckon anyone caught in the obsessive web of occult role-playing. That's why we, who trust God, need to recognize our enemy, resist his tempting strategies and know the truths that counter these deadly deceptions. The safety of our children depends on it. So,

"...be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole Armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Eph 6:10-12

Pagan fantasies join the digital explosion



While "popular occultism" was imbedding its pagan images, myths and monsters into our modern culture, the world was rapidly adapting to a computerized media. The two seemed made for each other.



"Magic is the science of the imagination, the art of engineering consciousness and discovering the virtual forces that connect the body-mind with the physical world," wrote Erik Davis in his article, "Technopagans." Showing the impact of pagan thrills on the cold logical world of computer language, he introduced Mark Pesce, a pagan leader in computer innovation:

"Mark Pesce is a technopagan, a participant in a small but vital subculture of digital savants who keep one foot in the emerging technosphere and one foot in the wild and woolly world of Paganism.... an anarchic, earthy, celebratory spiritual movement that attempts to reboot the magic, myths, and gods of Europe's pre-Christian people....
"A startling number of Pagans work and play in technical fields, as sysops, computer programmers, and network engineers. ...
"Over the millennia, alchemists, Kabbalists, and esoteric Christians developed a rich storehouse of mental tools.... It's no accident that these 'hermetic' arts are named for Hermes, the Greek trickster god of messages and information....
"Using a combination of ceremonial performance, ritual objects, and imagination, Pagans carve out these tightly bounded zones in both physical and psychic space. Pagan rituals vary quite a bit, but the stage is often set by invoking the four elements that the ancients believed composed all matter....
"...you find more intimate correspondences between computer culture and Paganism's religion of the imagination. One link is science fiction and fantasy fandom, a world whose role playing, nerd humor, and mythic enthusiasm has bred many a Pagan."6

"Both cyberspace and magical space are purely manifest in the imagination," says Pesce. "Both spaces are entirely constructed by your thoughts and beliefs."6

The characters birthed by Tolkien's imagination fit right in. That's why the first generation of mythmakers and technopagans would masquerade as wizards, hobbits, dwarves and other Middle Earth characters during the pioneering years of computer conventions. And that's why the emerging world of Dungeons & Dragons adopted Tolkien's orcs, dwarves, trolls and elves. Tolkien's mystical realms set the stage and built the pattern for America's future game-makers.

It makes sense. “The makers of D&D were trained in euro magic -- all the elements of the medieval craft, same as Tolkien," says Peter. "As an occult simulation, this system offers a smooth ride into the real world of euro magic."

In fact, the most popular role-playing games blend fact and fantasy, myth and and history together into a virtual reality that stirs the imagination and implants its dark images in the minds of the players. For example, Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play -- like the new Tolkien games -- is "set in a medieval fantasy world" populated with a vast diversity of orcs, ogres, dwarfs, goblins, wizards, gods and sorcerers. It is -

"very similar to early renaissance Europe.... There is a magic in this world that makes it special to the fans. This is partly the dark and sinister atmosphere.. and partly the easy and fast game mechanics."

"When role-playing, you have to act out your part and the Game Master (GM) rewards you for good acting, for making the character you play come to life and for your interactions with the world.... There is the ever present danger of corruption by the dark gods, but many mortal men are more than able to corrupt themselves with no extra help."

The global message behind role-playing magic



"I was taught in ritual magic how to go to different planes of existence outside the physical body," continued Peter. "I could create a realm there in which I could practice ritual magic and perfect my magical skills. What I did on the physical plane was what I had practiced on the astral plane through creative visualizations. Through my will and imagination, I made things happen on the physical plane. As above, so below! This ritual magic is a manifestation of the power of your will."



His words reminded me of Starhawk's formula for magic and spells. Author of The Spiral Dance and founder of the "Covenant of the Goddess" she taught her followers that,

"To work magic is to weave the unseen forces into form, to soar beyond sight, to explore the uncharted dream realm of the hidden reality... to leap beyond imagination into that space between the worlds where fantasy becomes real; to be at once animal and god...
Spells [and magic]... require the combined faculties of relaxation, visualization, concentration, and [mental] projection... To cast a spell is to project energy through a symbol."7

"As above, so below." These four words summarize the core of magic, explained Peter. But it was new to me, so I did an Internet search. Countless sites came up, linking the occult phrase to occult beliefs such as theosophy, kundalini yoga, the dialectic philosophy behind the yin-yang symbol and Theodynamics. The latter deals with "cosmic or First Force energy and the frequencies supposedly generated by the shape of the pyramid."8 I even found a children's public television station in Minneapolis that carried a children's program named "As above, so below." footnote



A more useful site gave the history and meaning of this simple phrase. But before you read the summary below, let me explain why I share this with you. As you have seen, these old occult teachings -- once hidden behind closed doors in secret societies and mystical brotherhoods -- have now gone mainstream. Yet, few recognize their dark, occult nature or the forces behind their timeless formulas. We cannot afford to be ignorant any longer. To avoid experiencing evil, we need to discern the evil. So take note of the esoteric concepts in the excerpt below. Many of these have been adapted to Christian counseling, mystical prayer, holistic health and other familiar practices. They sound good to those who are blind to the popular "wiles of the devil":

"This message theorizes that man is the counterpart of God on earth; as God is man's counterpart in heaven. Therefore, it is a statement of an ancient belief that man's actions on earth parallel the actions of God in heaven. ...

"To the magician the magical act, that of causing a transformation in a thing or things without any physical contact, is accomplished by an imaginative act accompanied by the will that the wanted change will occur. The magical act and imaginative act becomes one and the same. The magician knows with certainty that for the change to occur he must will it to happen and firmly believe it will happen....
"To bring about such a change, the magician uses the conception of 'dynamic interconnectedness' to describe the physical world as the sort of thing that imagination and desire can effect. ... Mind and body, galaxy and atom, sensation and stimulus, are intimately bound. Witchcraft strongly imbues the view that all things are independent and interrelated....
"The purpose of all rituals in ceremonial magic is to unite the microcosm with the macrocosm to join God, or gods when invoked, with the human consciousness. When such a supreme union is achieved the subject and object becomes one. This is because the magician feels that he is consciously in touch with all elements of the universe, therefore, he can control them.... This feeling intensifies the more the magician successfully practices his skills.
"When feeling unison with the universe the magician knows he has reached his Higher or True Self because he has attained mastery of himself and the universe. Thus he...receives the power of the superiors and of the inferiors.' Therefore, he 'hast the glory of the whole world." 9

This is a devious lie! But it's a message that Satan, masquerading as an "Angel of Light," has used to deceive God's people since the beginning of time. Remember what God tells us about this cruel "prince of the power of the air:"

“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars... I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit." Isaiah 14:12-15

Chaos magic and dark arts

Satan neither keeps his promises nor follows our rules. Behind all the tempting promises of worldly unity lurks a cold, heartless cruelty that few Americans can even imagine. But those who still remember the Nazi concentration camps or bear the scars of torture in Communist prisons understand the terror of a human nature trained and dominated by the forces of darkness.

Peter was part of that dark cruel world, and his description was chilling:

"Trained occultists will purge all love and all hate. They look for those who have no love or hate, but are predators. If you are part of the occult world and are not a predator, you become a sacrifice. If you demonstrate fear, or emotion, they don't want you. Games teach you to be a predator – without risking any consequences. No one can harm you. So why not try the real thing? Many do.

"If you look at your card games, they are used to kill or incapacitate your opponent. This is flight simulation for ceremonial magic. Any form of real or ritual magic. You conjure entities that go out and attack your enemies.

"In the games, the entities pictured on the cards show the levels of power. Pokemon fans dealt with elemental beings. Yugi and Magic the Gathering teach kids to invoke demonic entities, serviters and fallen angelics.

"In the game, you put your characters out there to be slaughtered. You sacrifice your pawn to gain some points. If an occultist aims for people power at the top, he must remove the people in front of him.

"When these predators see food -- gullible, captivated players -- they never ignore the opportunity. If you are not dressed for spiritual war, you become their victim."

Though Satan's tactics have worked well through the ages, he does introduce new twists to satisfy all who are hungry for new occult adventures. Among the more recent ones is something called chaos magic. An article titled "Out of Scientific Magic Systems" compares this new role-playing magic with the old formula-oriented magic:

"RPG [role playing games] magic systems can roughly be divided up into "fixed spell" and "freeform" mechanics. Fixed spell systems are often highly mechanistic.... Freeform mechanics, on the other hand, call for the GM [Game Master, referee] to judge the difficulty of a spell."10

The next excerpts may sound confusing, but it illustrates chaos magic well. Notice how it fits postmodern thinking. Remember, no facts or rules. Just mix and match the religious experience of your own dreams. The author of the article began with this brief dialogue:

"Me: My religion is like a game of Dungeons and Dragons. The first thing you have to do is figure out the rules all by yourself.
"Him: Sounds like Chaos Magick.
"Me: Yeah, kind of.... My religion -- Kemet -- is lumped together with other reality maps. They are called hermetic, neopagan, alchemy, and New Age. None of those words is really accurate. It is more like Sumerian/Canaanite/Hittite...

"The most obvious characteristic of my religion is that it is completely practical. The last thing I ask one of my students to bring is some theory from a book. As in Zen, I am interested in experience, not in the words that describe it, and never the analysis of anything.

"Several rituals do this: LCC's Eucharist is one [twisted views of Christian concepts tend to permeate occult systems] , Kemet's Theurgia is another. What they do can be summed up in the following--

As above, so below
As without, so within"11
Finally, meet Tyagi: "Like many technopagans, Tyagi ... explored role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons.... After reading and deeply researching philosophy, mysticism, and the occult, he began cobbling together his own mythic structures, divination systems, and rituals - an eclectic spirituality well suited to the Net's culture of complex interconnection.
"He also delved heavily into chaos magic, a rather novel development on the occult fringe that's well represented on the Net. Rather than work with traditional occult systems, chaos magicians either construct their own rules or throw them out altogether, spontaneously enacting rituals that break through fixed mental categories and evoke unknown - and often terrifying - entities and experiences.
"'Using popular media is an important aspect of chaos magic,' Tyagi says.... 'Most Pagans would get online and say, ‘Let's get together somewhere and do a ritual.’ Chaos magicians would say, ‘Let's do the ritual online.’"6

Whether traditional magic or chaos magic -- the results may well look like Christian miracles to a blinded world. The Bible warns us that many will be deceived. But those who love God's Word and refuse to participate in this darkness will be eternally safe in their Lord, Jesus Christ:

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness....
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught." 2 Thessalonians 2:7-16

Your choice: truth or myth?

Those who love and follow God, will be repelled by occult myths. And those who love today's popular occultism will run from God's unchanging truths and boundaries. For if we are filled with His Spirit and follow His way, we will -- by His life in us -- "abhor what is evil and cling to what is good." It's that simple.



Other Scriptures are even more specific. For example, 2 Timothy 4:2-5 tell us to --

"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables (or myths). But you be watchful in all things..."

The world cringes when it hears these truths. Its myths and fantasies are too enticing. That's why people find all kinds of arguments to justify their misdirected love.

In an article titled, "J.R.R. Tolkien: Truth and Myth," Tolkien's biographer, Joseph Pearce, wrote:

"... the power of Tolkien lies in the way that he succeeds, through myth, in making the unseen hand of providence felt by the reader.
“In his mythical creations, or sub-creations as he would call them, he shows how the unseen hand of God is felt far more forcefully in myth than it is ever felt in fiction. Paradoxically, fiction works with facts, albeit invented facts, whereas myth works with truth, albeit truth dressed in fancy disguises.
"Furthermore, since facts are physical and truth is metaphysical, myth, being metaphysical, is spiritual.” 12

Do you see the strange reasoning? For example, if Tolkien's mythical realm of occult magic and multiple gods "makes the unseen hand of providence felt by the reader," what message does it actually teach? Does Pearce really believe that God's all wise providence can be felt through the man-made gods in the Lord of the Rings? If so, the seductive myth has blinded his eyes and distorted his view of God's reality.

But that's just what myth does. It provides counterfeit answers to life's deepest questions and shuts the door to the only God who can provide eternal, life-giving answers. Small wonder the UK-based Tolkien Society chose the uroborus, a circular serpent swallowing its tail as a symbol for its organization. On one of its pages, this pagan society highlights the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Peter's former battle ground:

"Dedicated to such practices as ceremonial magic and divination, it valued these more as gateways to true understanding of reality than for their intrinsic merit."3

Do you see the raging battle for truth and clarity? What, then, can parents do if their children are caught up in the mystical worlds of fantasy games? Peter made these suggestions:

1. "If your child is a professing Christian, don't immediately condemn the games. Instead, explain that the Christian life is based on a belief system -- on Jesus Christ. Then help the child evaluate the game based on the 10 commandments. This gives them a Biblical base to work from."
"If your child wants to keep the game, ask why. (They all do.) His answer will show you what the child doesn't understand -- or why he is resisting."

2. "Teach your child that every part of life must reflect his relationship with Christ. Christians are vulnerable because they compartmentalize their God. Kids say, 'It’s only a game! It’s just fantasy.' They don’t see their God as part of their daily life and play, so they leave Him out. In contrast, occultists base every thought and action on their beliefs."

To equip your child for daily battles against tempting counterfeits to peace with God, consider these three other outlines of vital truths.

The Armor of God - These six truths expose and counter today's most popular deceptions. Even more important, they show us the way to an intimate relationship with God.

The Lord's Prayer - These truths parallel the ones in the armor of God and serve the same purposes.

The Beatitudes - Jesus' message, recorded in Matthew 5, show us a standard for holiness that is far higher than we can achieve, but it comes with the promise that -- by His life in us -- He will make us all He intends us to be. It ends with the reminder that those who follow Jesus will also share in His suffering. Therefore our children need to be prepared for persecution. Uncompromising faith and God's unchanging truths have become intolerable in today's postmodern age.

Brainwashing & How to Resist It - Here is another list of vital Scriptures that protect our minds against occult seductions.

The following chart lists the main postmodern obstacles to victorious faith. It shows the new meanings given to traditional "Christian" terms, and it lists Scriptures that clarify the confusion produced by postmodern thinking. Knowing these truths will strengthen your child's conscience and help anchor his or her mind in truth.

Postmodernity Christianity
Emphasis Common meaning But Jesus said:
Personal relationships - with the group or community. Please people rather than God. - with God. "I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:20-21
Tolerance - for what God warned us to shun. Forbidden things are now okay. “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mk 7:20-23

["Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good." Romans 12:9]

Truth - subjective, always changing, defined by the group -- with little or no Biblical insight. “I am the way, the truth, and the life...." John 14:6

["Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines." Heb 13:8-9]

Pluralism All religions (1) lead to the same place, (2) are valid paths to salvation. “...No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6


“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6:44

Authority Reject traditional authorities. Follow subjective feelings and group consensus. "I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 6:38

"Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” Luke22:42

Faith and view of the future Based on feelings, imagination and group consensus. Based on God's Word:

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me...." John 17:20-21

["All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17]

Spirituality Seeking spiritual power, favors, knowledge or wholeness - or oneness with a higher consciousness or an unknowable universal force or spirit. "...we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him..." I John 5:20

"Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them." Luke 21:8



"Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it."

1 Thessalonians 5:19-24


Endnotes:

1. Not his real name. For his safety, we are calling him Peter.

2. This message came to us in an email from another person well acquainted with occult philosophies. For his safety, I prefer to keep him anonymous as well, but I can forward any questions you might have to his email address.

3. Ray Yungen, A Time of Departing (Silverton, OR: Lighthouse Trails Publishing Company, 2002), page 101.

4. "The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was an English expression of the Nineteenth-Century occult revival in Europe. Dedicated to such practices as ceremonial magic and divination, it valued these more as gateways to true understanding of reality than for their intrinsic merit." http://www.tolkiensociety.org/1992/tcc_ab09.html

5. Glenn Alexander Magee, Hegel and the Hermetic Tradition (Ithaca and London: Cornell University Press, 2001, pages 1-3.

6. Erik Davis, "Technopagans" at http://www.techgnosis.com/technopagans.html

7. Starhawk, The Spiral Dance (New York: Harper & Row, 1979), p. 62.

8. Theodynamics at http://www.theodynamics.com/theo/volume2/chapter10.html

9. http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/below_above.html

10. http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/magic/antiscience.html

11. http://www.divanet.com/wynn/writing/chaos.asp

12. Joseph Pearce. "J.R.R. Tolkien: Truth and Myth." Lay Witness (September 2001).


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Home
So, on 10, how many >.< (Annoyed grimaces) does it get?

I give it >.< >.< >.< >.< >.< >.< >.< >.</10, because it paints a grim picture of gaming, but doesn't call us heretical hellbound morons, even using a nice tone. But it still makes gaming look like a guaranteed broad road to destruction.
 
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Svenmonkey

Guest
The only people that take that junk seriously are crazy fundamentalists, and they just happen to already be intolerably stupid.
 
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Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
Quite honestly, the *Astral Slide*s that try to recruit tourney-goers toward TEH DARK FORSEZ OF OCULT are a 1,000x greater annoyance than those (like Kjos) who are misled into thinking that RPGing/gaming requires sin and that such evil predators are the norm. Though I will NOT accuse her of deceit, I think that the lady's spokesperson, "Peter", is one of those people who were all up in dat biz-nass, and having seen the Light, now recoil at anything less than five degrees removed from sorcery for reasons of conscience (See the latter end of 1 Corinthians 8 and context, then see if I'm on the right track).

As soon as I've thought out a response, I'll dissect this article. It doesn't call for dissection. It puts a gun to my head and threatens to blow my brains out if I don't dissect it.

P.S. Tolkien's works are easily and by far the most misinterpreted literature in history since the Bible.
 
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DÛke

Guest
...
Shiro:

P.S. Tolkien's works are easily and by far the most misinterpreted literature in history since the Bible.
...which shows how stupid you are...
 
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Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
I know that there is a planet-wide gulf between you and I, and you will probably think that I am an accursed thing to be both pitied and hated until the sun explodes, deserving of death and having already received worse, but hear me out:

Have you seen what gits like the ones the article described are doing to it? JRR by no means meant to be supportive of realworld occultism, yet those who devote much time to LotR tarot, realworld magical theory loosely based on JRR, and those who insist on treating Hobbit, LotR, etc; as though they were forged by Satan are really fouling it up.

Some think it is a Christian allegory. Some think it is a demonic promotion of occultism. Some think it is a mystic guide. Really, it's just a great story that makes one think about the struggle between good and evil and the need to resist powerful temptation.
 
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EricBess

Guest
Interesting, isn't it? The Bible has started more wars than any single document in history and yet you don't see these zealots going after it like they do fantasy, do you?

It's not the tool that is good or evil, it's what you do with it.
 
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Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
True that. The answer to misuse isn't disuse, but correct use. The sooner (and more) that people learn that truth, the better for all. ESPECIALLY in the case of the Bible, the most important document to which this applies.

/*Yes, I KNOW I'll catch heat for this, but any heat I catch for the sake of JC and His Word I consider warmth.*/
 
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Svenmonkey

Guest
Yes, I KNOW I'll catch heat for this, but any heat I catch for the sake of JC and His Word I consider warmth.
That JC, such a silly goose.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
not this again?

Okay, this is probably not the last time I'll say this: The Bible in its current form can not be taken seriously. It's been re-translated so many times it's original meaning has been distorted to only suit the ruling regime at the time. Even Christ's teachings have been perverted so much that people don't care what he had to say. They just need a rallying point so they can say "We're right! What we're doing is right! Those that don't agree must DIE!" and other such perversions.

-Ferret

"...you see, I'm the one that likes taking heat, so you can relax, Shiro... :D"
 
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DÛke

Guest
...

At the chance of not recieving any heat...just what does: "DÛke's near-antithesis" really mean here?
 
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Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
Antithesis means opposite in personality, habits, or any such thing. Near-antithesis indicates that although we seem worlds apart, there are a few areas of agreement, but they are far between. It is NOT a pot shot. In fact, i'll probably think of a better title today.
 
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Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
DÛke: What would you say is the book that has been misinterpreted that much, then? The Qu'ran? (spelling is very wrong, I know).

Hey, what's with this woman's name anyway? She doesn't sound like a good god-fearing christian. It's not like Christ came from Eastern Europe or the Middle East or anything :p. How can she speak for Christians!!!
 
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DÛke

Guest
...

The Qur'an is misinterpreted, yes, by all the so-called "Muslims," whom I consider filthy. But not to discredit the rest of the world, they too are super-prejudice when interpreting it. Here is a secret I’ve been meaning to share with you: the Bible is misinterpreted most by Christians, and the Koran, by Muslims. And God, He is misunderstood by all. Poor, poor spirit...

The biggest sinner against him? His "Son."

Ever heard of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, by Friedrich Nietzsche? It makes the Bible look like a bad dream.

The Republic, which Plato wrote, I would not say it is as misunderstood as the Bible, but my O my, how I have heard bad assessments and mutterings concerning it.

And the best thing of all:

Nietzsche misinterprets Plato all the time, but beyond it all, Nietzsche is Plato, simply born in a different time period, and instead of being Greek, he is German...

Off topic:

You know? The simple fact that I am trying to talk to people and people try to talk to me, that you try to talk to people and people talking back to you...it is all one big misinterpretation and misunderstanding amongst ourselves and each other. Who really knows me? Who really knows you? You know how to talk and preach? Good! -- then you must also have drowned yourself. Here is the biggest gift you will ever receive (and you will misunderstand it): language is a miscommunication and a self-fleeing. But this is being too creative for simplified minds...

An additional note:

You can spell the Islamic "Holy" Book as: Koran, Qur'an, or Quran. Those, all I have seen so far. Since I speak Arabic, I can tell you: Qur'an comes close to actually pronouncing it right...
 
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Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
Originally posted by Thallid Ice Cream Man

Hey, what's with this woman's name anyway? She doesn't sound like a good god-fearing christian. It's not like Christ came from Eastern Europe or the Middle East or anything :p. How can she speak for Christians!!! [/B]
Thallid, she can speak as a Christian because she is a Lutheran minister. The name thing, even if a joke, is a pretty shallow statement.
 
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Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
Originally posted by DÛke

You know? The simple fact that I am trying to talk to people and people try to talk to me, that you try to talk to people and people talking back to you...it is all one big misinterpretation and misunderstanding amongst ourselves and each other. Who really knows me? Who really knows you? You know how to talk and preach? Good! -- then you must also have drowned yourself. Here is the biggest gift you will ever receive (and you will misunderstand it): language is a miscommunication and a self-fleeing. But this is being too creative for simplified minds...
Perhaps it is. I used to believe something I feel is similar to this but I could be wrong about their similarities. Still (and this is related to the argument itself, for a cool looking loop effect thing! wait... visualising logic = bad), I'm going to talk about it as though what you're saying is what I used to believe.
Language is a mis-communication and a pineapple. ;) However if we don't say it we might as well go off into the woods or onto the plains naked and spear some buffalo, or just wallow in mute pity until death of old age in a mental institution. Part of life is we have to deal with the fact that we can't communicate everything how we want to.

Thanks for the spelling lesson.

Shiro: It is a joke, and I know it's tasteless, but some of my best friends don't have heterogeneous American sounding names. I wouldn't actually hold it against someone ever, I was just pretending to be on about the intellectual level of the people who'd fall for this sort of thing. :)
(And part of the sarcasm should have been evident when I implied where jesus didn't come from, look again at the post :p)
 
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