Semi-Serious Philosophy

[Landkiller]

Ok. Should someone abandon their beliefs to do something more effieciently?

I think so. I mean, you're just one person. You've got the potential for anything, so why not achieve your potential in one area instead of being stuck on whatever you think? Just give up your silly ideas, and do what works.

 

[Landkiller]

Oh, yeah, before I forget. Everything is true. Everything anyone says, will say, thinks, or denies is true.

 

[DÛke]

...people should abandon beliefs to do something more efficiently, or even do something that can't be done.

I'll have to disagree with the "everything is true" part though...because really, not much is the truth...most are theories and basics...no facts, no truth...

What made you start this thread?

 

[Cateran Emperor]

No, as a matter of fact, h### no. I always stand by my principles, and instead throw myself at the task in a murderous fury. You wouldn't think going into a rage would solve matters, but it always works for me (and Urza too).

There is nothing that you cannot do that would require you to throw out your principles.

As for the added thought, I have no idea precisely what you mean. Therefore, is that true. Yet I do understand what you mean. But I said I didn't. As such, the answer is of course 5,037,879 bottles of beer.

 

[DÛke]

...so, Emperor, you're saying that we are always free to do whoteva we want...and not be looked at as freaks, or judged instantly?

PLEASE!

We're living on Earth here, where humans LOOK for abnormality, strive for imperfection...all so they can take a person and tear him or her apart, making that person look like a fool...and all of this is just to satisfy their damaged egos...

 

[Spiderman]

I think you're drifting from the original question.

It was "can you abandon your beliefs to do something MORE efficiently", not "abandon them to do a task, period".

And DUke, I don't think that's what CE is saying at all... well, the "not be looked at as freaks or judged" part.

 

[DÛke]

...I know that Spiderman...

You piss me off, let's suppose, and I wanna punch you...

...I could punch you so it's just a "oh, it's just an argument between friends..."

Or,

...I could punch you so it's like "OH MY GOD, CALL the police, 911, CALL everyone!"

Surely, you need some disenchanting of beliefs in order to perform the second task.

Like when you steel a dollar...

...and...

...when you rob a National Bank...

There's a difference.

 

[Landkiller]

Imagine a reason I started this thread. That reason is true.

What i'm saying is you Have to Abandon your beliefs to discover what's really true. How can you understand reality at all if you only see it from one perspective. You must have different sets of beliefs before you can understand how meaningless belief really is. It's all about achievement, and what you can do.

I believe the human potential is greatly wasted by closemindedness.

 

[DÛke]

...believe people are stupid...

I see the the twenty-first century, but I see the same old people...how much time do they need...to open their minds...

...many people still have problems with other cultures; racism...stereotyping...we're all humans, aren't we...from the same dirty place called Earth?

...many people still have problems with sexuality; gays, lesbiens, and what have you...it's Human Nature, you're born with it...

...many people still see the world from one point of view, dismissing every new concept as unreal; like we're living in a fully explained world or something...

...it's hard to cure stupid...

I believe that I can be whatever I want to be, and do whatever I feel like doing...I believe that I can ignore any uncivilized opinion...I believe...

...and so on...

 

[Hawaiian mage]

You talk about this stuff as though you all want to be good hearted phillantropists or something. Hey, if everyone wants to be stupid, there's more smart for you. You only get to live so long, so you might as well have fun doing it instead of trying to inforce this new belief to abandone beliefs upon the earthly populace.

(I don't think I've ever used so many big words in so few sentances...)

 

[Multani]

Ah! Finally, I can immerse myself in some non-political discussions...

As to address Landkiller's original question:
I think that people will relinquish their beliefs. People are not, in my opinion, capable of seeing the world in a truly impartial point of view.
They need a set of beliefs/values/etc. in order to make sense of everything, and to put things into perspective.

Yes, if people did put aside beliefs, then the world would be more efficent. This is both good and bad. Stuff like Socialism, and Communism would work, as everyone wants to be efficent. Also, there would be no greed or any such ideas. However, there might also be a lack of morality or compassion. Keep in mind, they are also beliefs...

If you think about it, every opinion and a great many things in life are beliefs. If you take away beliefs, you're completely restructuring civilization and the way humans think.

 

[DÛke]

...speak of morality as if it's alive and goin' well...and if compassion really mattered, there wouldn't be wars, there wouldn't be racism...there wouldn't be harsh feelings...

Most people already lack, to a certain extent, those properties...the question is how much more careless and pointless people would be without beliefs?

We wouldn't be able to answer such question, since just mentioning "beliefs" would make you look like a fool in front of most crowds...people don't like to change or adapt to new things, and that's a known fact...

Just my 1000$...

 

[Hawaiian mage]

$1000 DUke? Isn't that a bit much?

Any way, the thought just occured to me. Isn't it one of your beliefs to make your own deck idea? Would it not be more efficient to go copy some one else deck on the interenet and learn how to play that one? Sure, your not being original, but it's possible you could have just made that deck randomly and it was the same. If one deck works better then another, why not just use that deck?

 

[Multani]

Granted, things are bad out there, but to an extent, compassion and morality still mattered to a certain extent.
If those were to completely disappear, life might be much harder for us normal folk.

Besides, just because people don't like change, doesn't mean that change will never come about.
Every person in history that has made an impact on society had to go through some sort of humiliation.

As I see it, belief leads to ambition, which leads to change. But getting rid of beliefs, gets rid of change...

H-Mage: Keep in mind, whoever made the deck on the internet also had the belief to make their own deck. It justs happens to be that that deck is extremely efficent thus why people copy it....

 

[DÛke]

...every person who made an impact had to go throughout changes...but comparing those people with most others is not fair...not when we're talking about the everyday, "ordinary" folk.

When we say abandon beliefs, surely we're not talking about abandoning every single one...people don't only have positive beliefs, like compassion and morality, but they also have negative beliefs, probably as much as positive beliefs. Why are we assuming that when you abandon a belief that it has to be a positive one? There are beliefs that for sure inspire and strengthen the society, but equally, there are beliefs that lead into all kind of problems...

...abandon those beliefs for a change...

 

[Hawaiian mage]

DUke, do you realize how boring life would be if everything was good? And plus, there are variations as to whther a belief is good or bad.

Would pride be a beleif to give up for example?

 

[Landkiller]

Effiecient to what end? If your end is to gain acclaim for your original deckbuilding style, then making decks is for you. If your end is to demonstrate to yourself your talent, deckbuilding is for you. If your end is Pro Tour cash, deckbuilding may not be your forte enough that you should risk failure for pride.

As you can see, your effieciency in accomplishing a goal (Pro Tour cash)can make you put your personal beliefs aside.

I decide to do things not on the basis of what is right or wrong, but what it will accomplish. In my brief time on this earth, what do I want to do? That is my driving question. I can't be occupied living by the opinions of others, except as they impact my ability to live with myself.

One of my own goals is to improve humanity. I address this goal one person at a time, showing them what's up.

Another of my goals is to have a bad-ass convertible and a mansion. I have yet to address that goal.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

From what I understand, your original question is actually "Should someone consider new beliefs to help them do something efficiently?"
To this I answer a resounding YES. An open mind is essential to making a serious impact on society.

HOWEVER

We should not think badly of individual people who hold bad or harmful beliefs; it is not their fault, or any one person's fault. Rather, it is the fault of the values of their cultures, values that have been held for centuries. Despite living in the 21st century, most people still have a medieval mindset about things, or at least one close to it. This is the source of the problems DÛke was talking about.

Many people copy decks because they think "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," and leave it at that. This is because they have been bred to be opportunists.

 

[DÛke]

...Hawaiian Mage, I fully understand that life would be...not interesting (?) without negativity...after all, humans are fascinated by the abominations...

...but...

...don't you think that somethings are NOT fun? I mean, it maybe interesting to see a cat fight, or a fight between two wasted men, but is it fun to make fun of cultures, sexes, physical appearances, and all that crap?

Personally, I don't want the world cleansed anyway. I really like the illicit acts that some people commit...but those acts are not really hurting much of society, rather, they're hurting the people who commit them: their dignity, pride, and whoteva...

When you have fun, have fun ANYWAY you want, legally or illegally, as long as you don't get caught, and as long as you're not hurting ANYONE but yourself.

 

[Cateran Emperor]

Duke, you're getting way off topic from the original question here.

There is no universal good or evil, so I go based on what my own versions of good and evil are. Sometimes, if enough people see the same thing as evil, then they will all declare it as such. Hence the reason that there are now rules governing the treatment of prisoners of war.

My own set of values says that the individual is the most important, hence the reason that some amounts of greed and ambition are admirable. I cannot respect someone who has no sense at all of their future, whether it is for better or worse. Self sacrififce is an honorable thing, but only if you do it for a just cause.

In response to Multani, I would never be able to live in a socialist society. Very few people would. We humans are ambitious by nature, and we cannot accept the forced mediocrity and absolute equality that socialism requires.

As for the whole racism/homosexual thing, there are very easy ways to figure all this out: rationally. Racism is very probably the most idiotic reason to do anything that has ever existed. If you have two males of the same species, this whole racism nonsense is nothing more than a regional difference that is inconsequential. Why some people are incapable of seeing that is beyond me, but ultimately everyone is going to see that if the media stops sensationalizing such things and politics stops specifically addressing these things they will cease to be. How many times have you been watching a TV show with some humans talking and all of a sudden heard one of them mention that they're "white" or "black" or some other "group"? One of the reasons I veryu rarely watch television any more is because everyone is so eager to point out that "hey, we're different races and it matters!" Rap music does the same thing with disgusting frequency. Political action groups like the KKK and the NAACP don't help matters either, insisting that the barriers remain up just like they have in the past. This simply will not do.

This whole homosexuality nonsense is easy enough to solve: ignore it. After all, if as Duke says, it is genetic, then those bloodlines, being unable to reproduce, will die off and solve the problem. If a trait evolves that is not suited to survive, those possessing it die off. It's the unquestionable cycle of nature.