Selfishness versus Humanity...

[DÛke]

...

Chaos Turtle:

Well it tough to determine whether you're most recent post is sarcastic, DÛke. If it's not, then congrats on seeing the point.

Ok, this is a bit insulting. Almost every CPA member I talked to in past day thinks I'm being sarcastic about everything! You guys are taking me for granted, aren't you? I was being serious...

Chaos Turtle:

...The only thing I could even imagine that would come close to the truly unselfish act would be a person giving his or her own life to save a stranger's. But I believe that in almost any case where this has happened (though we can never know for certain, can we?) the person does so with a religious/spiritual motivation, and expects some reward hereafter.

Good point. Suppose someone has no religious or spiritual motivation, what would be the reason behind the cause? Why does it always have to be something expected for an action -- and how do you know? How do you know that there's no completely selfless people out there?

Chaos Turtle:

Indeed, there are probably many examples of people do exhibit selfless behavior. But why do they? Because of some other personal motivation, even if it's something as simple as feeling good about it.

Now there's *my* point. Is that really bad? Now we're talking back at me saying that there are, basically, 2 types of selfishness, one with a good motivation, and one with a bad one. Doing good things in order to feel good is not bad at all.

In conclusion, while I don't exactly see all the points made here...all of what I've read basically says that there are two types of selfishness...and even though nobody else has really agreed with that, everyone says it...without saying it.

Spiderman, don't worry, it wasn't a debate or anything...

 

[Apollo]

Now there's *my* point. Is that really bad?

No, it's not bad at all. But that's not we're debating. The question was whether everybody is selfish. They are. Is it bad? No! Hooray for selfishness!

 

[DÛke]

...I agree with you Apollo:

Apollo:

The question was whether everybody is selfish. They are. Is it bad? No! Hooray for selfishness!

Let me just rephrase it though: Everybody is selfishly pleasant and supportive at times. The key words here are "pleasant" and "supportive."

 

[Multani]

DUke: Now, now, now. I didn't 'just disconnect'. I had to leave and I told you I was gonna leave. I had other things to do, and I thought we both needed to cool down. Also, I felt I had to end the discussion at some point, because it could on, and on and on.
I would appreciate if you don't resort to mudslinging like that. This is all opinion. You said that in your initial statement. So, why are you trying so hard to disprove my opinion? There is no right or wrong.

 

[DÛke]

...Multani, here's how you ended your conversation with me, and I dare to quote:

Multani on AIM:

...just think about it...

...which, by the way, came out of thin air. Now, I did think it was clever of you to leave me hangin' there, filled with unspoken thoughts...but don't blame me for venting off here...it was a solid conversation there. You and I were conversing in a mature manner...we could have arrived to what Gizmo had said above. You could have said it; I could have said it...but you logged off just too carelessly, in my opinion.

If this is "mudslinging," like you claim, than I would have not agreed with something here. I just needed to see if someone actually had my thoughts...and many do, in different ways...so that's it.

Multani:

There is no right or wrong.

That wasn't how you acted back on AIM...but I'll agree -- there isn't right or wrong. Don't worry, I still respect you *a lot* for simply starting an argument with me back on AIM -- we should do it more often.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

DÛke
...Ok, this is a bit insulting. Almost every CPA member I talked to in past day thinks I'm being sarcastic about everything! You guys are taking me for granted, aren't you? I was being serious...

You reap what you sow.
You are generally sarcastic and dismissive of others' opinions. At least, in your CPA posts, you are. What do you expect?

DÛke
Suppose someone has no religious or spiritual motivation, what would be the reason behind the cause? Why does it always have to be something expected for an action...

Because otherwise it would countrary to the survival drive, illogical.

DÛke
...and how do you know? How do you know that there's no completely selfless people out there?

I don't know, and I didn't say there weren't. It's my opinion, however, that a truly, utterly selfless person would be exhibiting irrational behavior. Can you imagine what it would really be like to act only in the interests of others?

DÛkeNow we're talking back at me saying that there are, basically, 2 types of selfishness, one with a good motivation, and one with a bad one. Doing good things in order to feel good is not bad at all.

Agreed.
Again, it's how one views the connotations to the word "selfish" that determines his or her assumptions about whether selfish behavior is "good" or "bad." I don't see anything wrong with being selfish, whether to a normal degree or a wanton one.

As far as I'm concerned, people can be as selfish as they like, as long as they don't impinge upon my own desire to be as selfish as I want to be.

Now when a person is so selfish that he deprives others of their liberty, property, or well-being, then perhaps that person has crossed the line into "bad" behavior. But most people aren't like that.

 

[DÛke]

...

Chaos Turtle:

You are generally sarcastic and dismissive of others' opinions. At least, in your CPA posts, you are. What do you expect?

I am not going to even discuss this untruthful statement. However, I thought you, at least, knew me just a bit better than your average CPA member...

Chaos Turtle:

Because otherwise it would countrary to the survival drive, illogical.

To be illogical is to be unrealistic. You dismiss it's existence because it's illogical -- or unreal -- but let me tell you something that is off-topic: reality itself, and the word "real" should always be written with quotation marks. There's no such thing as "real," as illogical as it may seem to you.

Chaos Turtle:

It's my opinion, however, that a truly, utterly selfless person would be exhibiting irrational behavior. Can you imagine what it would really be like to act only in the interests of others?

Well, exhibiting irrational behavior, or living an "illogical" world...the person is being selfless, nevertheless and neverthemore. Besides, all those severe mental disorders many go through -- I wouldn't be surprised if some of those disorders were this "irrational behavior."

Chaos Turtle:

Again, it's how one views the connotations to the word "selfish" that determines his or her assumptions about whether selfish behavior is "good" or "bad." I don't see anything wrong with being selfish, whether to a normal degree or a wanton one.

In my opinion, there's an actul "bad" and an actual "good" selfishness -- that's how I view it. Once you do anything of the "bad" selfishness, than you've done a bad thing. Just like lying -- you rarely lie and can say that it was "good" lying...

As far as I'm concerned, people can be as selfish as they like, as long as they don't impinge upon my own desire to be as selfish as I want to be.

Well then.

Now when a person is so selfish that he deprives others of their liberty, property, or well-being, then perhaps that person has crossed the line into "bad" behavior. But most people aren't like that.

I agree...but that's not saying much...

 

[Multani]

...Multani, here's how you ended your conversation with me, and I dare to quote:

quote:

Multani on AIM:

...just think about it...


...which, by the way, came out of thin air. Now, I did think it was clever of you to leave me hangin' there, filled with unspoken
thoughts...but don't blame me for venting off here...it was a solid conversation there. You and I were conversing in a mature manner...we
could have arrived to what Gizmo had said above. You could have said it; I could have said it...but you logged off just too carelessly, in
my opinion.

Now, actually, I think I said something like,
look, if your human ur selfish, so the question is, are u human? Now, i gotta go so...
think about it


Maybe not those exact words, but something like that. Not that I hold you accountable for every word I say.

Now, basically, I had to get off to do stuff, and if I sounded rude, and abrupt, sorry.

On the other hand DUke, why do you care about not being selfish, when alot of people believe that EVERYONE is selfish? Why do you want to set yourself away from the crowd so desperately?
Just wondering.

 

[arhar]

First of all, off topic:

COULD EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP USING 23432456456456546456.324324324 % ?!?!?!? THERE COULD ONLY BE 100 PERCENT MAXIMUM! THAT'S ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

Sorry, that's a science major in me protesting

Anyway....

My definition of "selfish" is that there's no such thing. Very simple. "Selfish" is the word hypocrites invented to describe those who don't agree with their moral outlook at the world. The fact is, every human cares for him/her self, and always looks out for Number One. It is completely normal and acceptable to do everything in order to improve one's own happiness in life. Everybody who ever said "I'm doing good things to help others" is wrong.... that's NOT why they're doing good things. You're giving out charity because you want to feel GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF, because you want to think of yourself as a generous person. You may still genuinely care about the people you care, but MOSTLY .. you do it for yourself.

I know that this may be hard to swallow, since it's dangerously close to LaVey'an teachings... but that's just the way things are.

 

[FoundationOfRancor]

Well, I think that when they use 208%, its technically supposed to be a base of 1000.

I agree with Daggertooth, though theres been good points by almost everyone.

Also, something C. Turtle said strikes me as a question that is of much importance...."Is being selfish bad?"

 

[DÛke]

...

Multani:

On the other hand DUke, why do you care about not being selfish, when alot of people believe that EVERYONE is selfish? Why do you want to set yourself away from the crowd so desperately? Just wondering.

I'm not trying to set myself "away from the crowd," Multani. Before this discussion, I knew of only one type of selfishness. The people replying to this thead have informed me in one way or another, mostly that selfishness exists one 2 completely separate levels -- levels that cannot be compared at all. I am selfish Multani -- yes, I am. I posses the "good" selfishness. Yes, each human is selfish, but remember, there are two kind of selfishness...and I am one and not the other.

Arhar:

COULD EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP USING 23432456456456546456.324324324 % ?!?!?!? THERE COULD ONLY BE 100 PERCENT MAXIMUM! THAT'S ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

Don't look at me! I'm the one who uses "307%" -- the rest? They only stole the idea from me!

Arhar:

My definition of "selfish" is that there's no such thing. Very simple. "Selfish" is the word hypocrites invented to describe those who don't agree with their moral outlook at the world. The fact is, every human cares for him/her self, and always looks out for Number One. It is completely normal and acceptable to do everything in order to improve one's own happiness in life. Everybody who ever said "I'm doing good things to help others" is wrong.... that's NOT why they're doing good things. You're giving out charity because you want to feel GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF, because you want to think of yourself as a generous person. You may still genuinely care about the people you care, but MOSTLY .. you do it for yourself.

Hold on to your stinkin' hats...beeeee-cause...I'm agreeing with Arhar. Again, it's basically saying that there are 2 kinds of selfishness. I'm for that.

FoR:

Also, something C. Turtle said strikes me as a question that is of much importance...."Is being selfish bad?"

The question has already been asked and answered: selfishness is not really bad...basically depending on what type of selfishness you're talking about. In an example where you may help a person to feel better about yourself, that's not bad at all. However, destroying a friendship because your friend wont lend you $307, especially when you think you need it more...that's the "bad" selfishness...

 

[Spiderman]

For said: Also, something C. Turtle said strikes me as a question that is of much importance...."Is being selfish bad?"

*I* said that!

 

[EricBess]

You're a science major and you limit your thinking to 300%? If I have 3 apples and you have 2 apples, I have 150% as many apples as you do. Science allows for over 100%.

Statistics, on the other hand, I'm not sure does.

 

[Multani]

We actually have something resembling a successful conclusion to a philislophical debate!
This is incredible! I think we can break out the champenge!
And since me and DUke agree. I think this thread has served its purpose...
DUke, wanna shut this one down?

 

[Spiderman]

Are you saying you both want this closed?

 

[DÛke]

...will not allow the closing of this thread. There's nothing wrong with it...

I think Multani was just being metaphorical...

Multani...the thread can die down when it dies down...I have no control over it...

 

[Apollo]

Originally posted by Spidey:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For said: Also, something C. Turtle said strikes me as a question that is of much importance...."Is being selfish bad?"
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*I* said that!

*Everybody* said that!

 

[Spiderman]

But *I* said it first!