Selecting 8th: Which counterspell?

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Don't forget that Rewind was printed as a replacement for Counterspell (hence the lack of Counterspell in Saga) -- in that capacity it fails miserably. Rewind is only better than Counterspell if you want to take advantage of a stupid mechanic that probably should never have seen the light of day in the way it did -- and definitely not in a basic set.

I would vote emphatically for Dismiss if I could get the site to let me.

 

[Multani]

As someone who plays blue alot, i'll tell you that Rewind, while not utter crap, isn't that good of a counterspell.

The key to remember is that your lands do not untap until after the spell resolves, which means, in a counterwar, or in the case where your opponent follows your counter with multiple instants, you're effectively left with a 4 mana plain counterspell.
On top of that, it's 4 mana, which means that it'll take a blue mage normally 4 turns to bring it out. Against fast decks, that doesn't matter anymore. Don't get me wrong, the Untap land mechanic is really strong, but it's useless alot of times on Rewind.
It's an okay counterspell under normal spellcasting conditions, but sucks when you're playing against instant speed decks.

Dismiss on the other hand, is better than Rewind, because while it is also 4 mana, it can net you a card, and to blue, card advantage is everything. Also, in my opinion, it's performance is alot more consistent then Rewind. Basically, I like it alot more.

In all honesty, I wouldn't more than 2 of either in my deck, but I think that a consistent draw ability is more important than the untap ability.

 

[Gizmo]

What I like about this thread is that although everyone is voting for Dismiss, half the people are voting for it because they think Rewind is broken, and the other half are voting for it because they think Rewind is so bad you`d never play with it, whereas at least Dismiss replaces itself.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Strangely, Rewind is both. I know, I know

 

[EricBess]

Great point, Gizmo

I must say, however, that if this is indeed supposed to be a replacement for Counterspell, Rewind does lose a significant amount of merit because how good it actually is is directly related to the number of additional counterspells (of any sort) you can cast with the untapped mana. Of course, if you are holding 4 Rewinds, it doesn't really matter.

I just think that the untap mechanic is more abusable and don't really want to see it back...

 

[Apollo]

Good point, Gizmo. Very ironic.

I've got a friend that plays with Rewind a lot, and there's several situations I generally associate it with.

A) I'm playing red, he's got 4 mana open, and I think he can counter twice. I play the Ball Lightning with him at 6, he Rewinds, and I think "Oh, cool!" and burn him out in response.

B) I'm playing green and he's got 3 mana because of a Plow Under. I figure he can counter one spell, so I try to tempt him with a Hermit. He scoops, and says "If it wasn't for that Plow Under, I would've been able to Rewind it!" I say "If you were playing a half-decent counter, you'd have taken care of both the Plow Under and the Hermit."

C) I'm playing blue, he's got 4 mana open and I figure he can Counter twice. I try to draw one out with a basic threat. He Rewinds, and I think "Oh, cool!" and counter the Rewind, leaving him tapped out so I can go to town.

In short, when I'm playing him, I'd generally rather he had Rewind in his hand than any other Counter in his deck. That's just personal experience, and I do tend to play a lot of fast decks, but I've never seen him in a situation where Rewind was preferable to Counterspell (or Dissipate, Dismiss, etc.).

 

[Spiderman]

PJ: Well, it looks like it'll have another expansion to shine in

All: Well, I sort of forgot that it might seem weird to have one card with the "untap mechanic" in the "basic set" (since no one mentioned any others) while the "draw a card" mechanic might be more prevalent. In that respect Dismiss might be a better choice.

But strictly card-speaking, no one's still shown that Rewind has "broken" the environment definitely or shown overall that it's a bad choice vs all card decks. No one's addressed any potential combos like PJ mentioned with Mists of Stagnation. Gimzo had the good point of it being a block mechanic, and EricBess said it WAS played too much.

I don't know; I guess as someone who hasn't played either much, no one's convinced me that either card is better than the either. Perhaps that wasn't the point, but if you take away the block mechanic-ess of the card, no one's really shown (to me) that Dismiss deserves it. Although as I said above, if it's just based on appropriateness due to block mechanic-ess, then Dismiss would be better.

 

[NorrYtt]

Blue's untap land mechanic in Urza Block was broken. I had to endure matches that ended with Treachery, Treachery, Morphling. Do you not see the unbridled asspumpage of UBC Blue?

Since R&D has completely nerfed combo decks, it makes sense to beat counterspells with the big nerf bat as well. Couple that with R&D's migration of Blue's flyers to White, and we might be able to play something nonblue in Standard for a change.

If it were my choice, blue would rot in a fetid cesspool for the next 5 years while I scream "What's it feel like to STINK?" Green had nothing as far as tournaments go until Visions, then Urza's Legacy, and now the entire Odyssey block will make green the best color in Type II when Invasion rotates out, I azure you

BTW, I vote for Dismiss

 

[Dune Echo]

I'm a casual player, I HATE playing against blue! I'm trying to pick the worst counterspell of the two myself.

Blue is obviously moving towards card drawing during the blue player's turn unlike how it is right now with Fact or Fiction. What card is going to give the blue player the least amount of options? Dismiss gives you an immediate card advantage during your opponent's turn whether or not you have additional cards in hand.

With Rewind... I normally can't cast more than one spell per turn against a blue player anyway.. I view Rewind as less of a threat in the current environment than Dismiss once Undermine leaves. I have to cast a second spell (w/ my opponent has a 2nd Counterspell in hand) before they get an effect. Also, my opponent has to have an additional board effect card such as AEther Burst to have any benefit from Rewind if I don't cast a second spell.

Cantrips by nature give the blue mage a benefit right away, Dismiss is just expensive. Rewind is entirely conditional.

I voted Rewind.

 

[Mikeymike]

Taken from today's magicthegathering.com Q&A

Q: "I saw that in one of the votes for what cards to put into Eighth Edition, Rewind was one of the options. Because it contains a block mechanic, I didn't think it was eligible to be reprinted. Does this mean that you're changing your reprint policy?"
-- Eric Lund, Milwaukee, WI

A: From Randy Buehler, Magic lead developer:
"Good question. We in R&D think of mechanics as falling into several categories. Some are things we do all the time (flying, first strike, etc) while others are things we like to save up and do all at once in order to help give an identity to the block they appear in (flashback, threshold, echo, etc). These are the two most talked about categories, but there is actually a third -- stuff that we sprinkle around where it seems appropriate. I'm talking about things like cantrips and 'can't be countered' that we don't do every set, or even every block, but that we still do reasonably often. This third category is mostly utility mechanics that aren't exactly splashy, but they are nice to have around from time to time because of their play value.

"The 'free mechanic' started life as a block mechanic, but it turned out to be inherently broken and it's one of the main reasons that Urza's Saga gave rise to the dreaded 'Combo Winter.' It's simply to easy to use free spells in a combo deck to generate mana. Note, however, that Rewind never fit into any of those combo decks. It was only the proactive free spells that were flawed -- you can't play reactive stuff (like Rewind) until your opponent does something and therefore the combo decks just weren't interested.

"So rather than write off the free mechanic as a failure, R&D thinks there's still a potentially interesting 'Category 3' mechanic buried under there. We think we can occasionally do reactive free spells when the urge strikes us.

"Meanwhile, it's true that the base set doesn't include any 'block mechanics,' but category 3 mechanics (I wish I had a better name for these) are indeed fair game. In addition, Rewind has a great name and great flavor and it would make a fine Eighth Edition card."

 

[Istanbul]

Rewind won.

*sigh*

 

[Spiderman]

woo-hoo?



Seriously, wait until you see the impact (if any) it'll have (aside from arguments that its mechanic or whatever shouldn't belong in the "base set"). This will probably be forgotten (much like the ballyhooed addition of Serra and other "oldies" in the previous edition).