Selecting 8th: Which counterspell?

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Purple_jester

Guest
So guys, the next 8th edition selection is up on MagicTheGathering.com, and the choice is between the cantrip counterspell Dismiss, and the "free" counterspell Rewind. Which is more appropriate for the future environment? Cantrips seem to be the "in" thing nowadays, but any spell that causes you to untap lands deserves a look, especially with spells like Mists of Stagnation being available.

Opinions? ;)
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I don't know, not being really familiar with what goes on nowadays, but I'd say Rewind and getting a "free" counterspell seems better to me.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I agree. Rewind is good.

Specifically, Rewind is TOO good.

Can you think of any environment in which ACC spells did NOT unbalance the game? Think of Alliances with Force of Will and Contagion. Think of Masques with spells like Gush, Daze, and Thwart. Were those fun to face? No. They were annoying and boring and impossible to strategize around.

I voted for Dismiss. I hope you do too.
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
Rewind or Dismiss. Hmm, that's a tough call.

I'd vote for Rewind, simply because I don't think there are enough great counterspells out there, right now.


Ransac, cpa trash man
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
hmm... Rewind, which is crap, or Dismiss, which is at least some good.

There IS a difference between an ACC counterspell and a 4cc counterspell that untaps 4 lands, you know.

Rewind is poor, would never get played, and is dull, and also carries something close to a block mechanic.

Dismiss is ok, might actually see play (I doubt it), and is just a cantrip.
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
Dismiss was played a bit when they were in Standard. Rewind was basically only played in UBC.
Although, if FoF would be still in T2, I'd say Rewind might be superior to Dismiss, but as it stands Dismiss is the better choice.


@MTGNews circulates a rumor that BoP and Counterspell won't be reprinted in 8th :eek:, this might make Dismiss/Rewind a staple card o_O.
 
L

Lotus Mox

Guest
Well, 8th could contain Force Spike, Power Sink, or Memory Lapse, which are all conditional.

Dissipate would be an unconditional option.
 
T

theorgg

Guest
If mtg.com comes back for me(it's down again) I'm voting for Dismiss.

Rewind was too good for the casual scene, but not good enough for tournaments!

Rewind also has a machanic that I'd like to see stay gone-- at least in Blue. If green recieved such a thing with a six-casting cost 5/5 that untapped three lands or somsuch, that woudn't be bad... but Blue doesn't need it!

Please vote Dismiss!
 
E

EricBess

Guest
My recollection of what happened when these counterspells were around must be a bit different than some people's here.

Here's the situation... We're not talking counter wars here, we're just talking playing some decent deck against draw-go.

You're opponent has 4-5 mana untapped and you are trying to get a spell through. How many decent spells do you need to be able to cast to make sure one gets through?

Rewind wasn't played much? I seem to recall that it was quite good because once you hit 4 mana as a blue mage, you effectively increase the number of spells you can counter with the mana availible.

Dismiss, yes it draws you a card, but as a blue mage, tapping 4 land to counter a single spell is not a small thing.

Maybe things are different in casual play, but IMHO, Rewind was a bit too powerful. Bring back Dismiss, please! Blue doesn't need that much of a boost.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
EricBess has pretty much summed up my POV. You don't often see counter wars these days, making Rewind a 'free' Counterspell. Free has always been the same as broken, even going so far back as Mr. Lotus back in the old days. Dismiss may not be GREAT, but it's perfect for the basic set; let's remember, we're not helping to create an expert-level set, here.

I have a hard time believing that Counterspell isn't staying.
I don't have such a hard time believe that BoP isn't staying.
 
A

Apollo

Guest
Nah, it's not free. You still need 4 open mana to play it, and you can still respond to it with them tapped out. Force let them counter even if they tapped out on their turn, but for Rewind they have to keep those 4 lands untapped, which is a lot more limiting. Personally, I've played a wide variety of counter decks, and never found Rewind to be worth sticking in a deck. Granted, I only used Dismiss a couple times, but at least it was decent.
 
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Elrond

Guest
I'm going to vote for Dismiss whenever I get the chance to, the site's acting up on me.

The reason I'm voting for Dismiss over Rewind is that I didn't really like the untap land cards, excluding Treachery.
 
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EricBess

Guest
Apollo, the point isn't that it is "free" in the sense that it costs no mana. The point is that it's an "extra" counterspell.

When a blue mage sits with 4 mana open, you expect them to be able to counter 2 spells. I can't tell you how many times I would account for my opponent having a Rewind, only to find out he was holding 2 Rewinds and was able to counter 4 spells instead of 3.

Magic is a game of math and odds and cards like Rewind throw off the numbers to the point that you can't make calculated risks based on known information.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Having never really been on either side of an "untap" counter war, I would say that I don't think having such uncertainties is a bad thing. And I'd say the same for Alliances ACC spells, which I have used, though not extensively in a tourney setting (yet, that shouldn't matter solely).

But I guess people either LIKE that certainty or perhaps the time for such uncertainty has passed, for a bit, in Magic now... <sigh>
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
I'm out of luck it appears.

Rewind was part of the broken mechanic crew and should not be brought back. Might as friggin' well bring Treachery and Morphling back. It may take 4 mana to use, but to be able to cast this on turn 4, and then some crazy card-drawing spell at the EOT like Scrying or such is too strong.

Dismiss is more playable now than it was in Tempest b/c the environment is slower and there is a sufficient lack of hard counters.


My vote is for Dismiss.
 
E

EricBess

Guest
Spidey, what you've said is basically correct....is such uncertainty a bad thing? Well, I suppose that to some extent, it is part of what makes the game fun. I mentioned the math and certainly, as a game that teaches math, it is not a good card.

But one thing is certain, it is a powerful card. If blue were a weak color, I might think that it would be interesting to have Rewind back. But blue is at the moment probably the most powerful color and I'm not sure even Gizmo would disagree. It doesn't need a power card like this. Granted, Force of Will is worse, but still...
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Even with black in Torment and White and Green in Judgment? Boy, I wonder what the environment would be like when blue gets "its turn" :eek:
 
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Purple_jester

Guest
Blue already got "its turn." It was called Urza Block. ;)

I'm voting Dismiss. It's a stronger card in Limited, and that's about the only tournament environment I'm playing in. If they want to bring back Rewind, I believe it should be in an Expert set and not in 8th.
 
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