Rosewater's Article

[rkoelsch]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr29

I would be interested in hearing what other people have to say about this. I am probably being naive but I think most of his opinions are fair. All except the use of Proxies. I think that is a weak excuse. If they start to use proxies it might create a tidal wave of people wanting to use proxies. Yes I want to proxy 4 call of the Herd. But I think if they limit it to type 1 tournaments that would be valid.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Why the hell is that guy in the picture 4/5 of the way down the page using an Underground River in what is supposedly Type I?
Doesn't that flatly contradict MaRo's point?

Anyway, I also agree with most of what he says... but proxies of out-of-print cards should be allowed.

 

[Spiderman]

Also not being an expert (and not having seen what rakso has to say about it), I think it also makes sense, including the reason for the proxies (although since those sets are out of print, most people acquiring those cards are probably from other players).

Here's an interesting question (to me ): What if the power cards of Type 1 were "banned" and people had to use the more "balanced" version? Like Elven Cache to Regrowth, whatever the Time Walk is, etc. How would Type 1 change? Getting past the "well, that means you're not using every card available" idea... you're using the mechanic, at least. Would things slow down? Would it be more open to other players?

 

[Sammy Dead-O]

It seems like you're basically describing Type 1.5, Spidey (where all of Type 1's restricted cards are banned). This does make for a slower environment, from what I understand (no Moxes, Lotuses, Academies, etc.), and many players are more drawn to this format because of the lower number of high-money cards required. Still, it isn't all that popular, and may be even less popular than Type 1.

On a related note, I might be playing in my first Type 1 tourney ever on Wednesday. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of cards, and most of those aren't even with me (I'm visiting my girlfriend's dad). Here's to hoping my Mind Twist and 2 Hymns can help pull me through...

 

[Spiderman]

I guess I am and maybe that's the more viable format. I mean, the reason why cards are on the banned/restricted list is because they unbalance the game. Everyone likes cheap and "broken" cards but it's probably more healthy in the long run just to recognize that the early days of Magic was still the experimental phase and cards weren't balanced, and basically "throw out" the mistakes.

Unfortunately, it'll probably be next to impossible to do this, since part of the collectibility of cards is their playability and those who invested in the P9 and such will cry bloody murder. Still, if it's a miniscule percentage of players who are holding this format "hostage" because of it, maybe it's not worth holding on to...

 

[Apollo]

I do think that 1.5 is probly the better format, but I hate the idea of banning those problem cards. Lots of people have spent big money on those cards, and there should be one format at least where you can use them. Type 1 is my favorite format just because I can potentially use any card I own.

 

[Spiderman]

See, that's the problem. Players would have to get rid of the whole mindset of "it's been printed, therefore I have the right to use it" and instead just embrace the idea of taking another turn, or putting out a 0 artifact for mana.

rakso (I think) believes that you can play Type 1 competitively without the broken/P9 cards and I guess I have to defer to his experience as I don't play it. But I can't help but wonder: you see the power cards played against you and you want them; Time Walk with it's 2 cc is better than whatever new version they came up with, right? So if those cards weren't allowed and less people were at the "highest plateau" of broken cards, would more people be inclined to play it?

 

[Rando]

Yes, it is possible to play and win without the power cards. I got top four at the last type I tourney localy with a pox deck that had no power. (although Dark Ritual does make a desent substitute.)

But, ya know what won the tournament? Fully powered Keeper. Mono-Blue Ophidian w/ jewlery came in second.

So, yes you can compete w/out power. And yes, having the power cards makes it a lot easier to do so.

The joke of the night was, at the begining of the match, "Roll to see who wins?"

 

[Spiderman]

When I say "compete", I mean "win" too. As in #1.

"Local" Type 1 tournaments might not have such a problem if no one has the broken cards and might resemble 1.5 affairs. Although of course, if one person in the area DOES acquire them somehow, it might tip the field.

On the other hand, if the broken cards aren't available in an area, I guess other "power" cards would filter up. The question then becomes: are/will they become high-priced and hard to get? How many of them are there? Etc... I guess it just filters down to the next level.

 

[Rando]

I guess what I was trying to say was that you can win with out the power, but having the power makes it easier.

Of the 25 people in the tourney, I'd say 10 had the "good stuff"...Mana Drains, Library, Moxes, et cetera. A lot of those people were owned by guys that showed up with what was little more then old Extended Sligh with a Fork and a Wheel of Fortune thrown in. Or, they were owned by guys like me, with the well loved "Hymn, Hymn, I win."

The guy that won the day with fully powered keeper did not win because he had all the power cards, he won because he knew how to play the deck.

 

[Apollo]

rakso (I think) believes that you can play Type 1 competitively without the broken/P9 cards and I guess I have to defer to his experience as I don't play it.

Yes, you can. I've won several type 1 tournaments over people with the whole kaboodle (I have just a mox jet). It does make it easier, but unless something absolutely ridiculous shows up in the opening hand, play skill and deck design will still win out. Those "Oops, I win" hands don't occur quite as often as it sometimes sounds.

So if those cards weren't allowed and less people were at the "highest plateau" of broken cards, would more people be inclined to play it?

That's type 1.5, and nobody at all plays 1.5. Besides, if you do that, it doesn't matter how many people play the format, because it's an entirely different format. Many of the qualities that make type 1 cool are gone, so it's not really type 1 anymore (IMHO).

 

[Spiderman]

That's type 1.5, and nobody at all plays 1.5. Besides, if you do that, it doesn't matter how many people play the format, because it's an entirely different format. Many of the qualities that make type 1 cool are gone, so it's not really type 1 anymore

Isn't the only difference that the restricted list in 1 is the banned list in 1.5? So really, all that's gone are the cheapo mana acceleration artifacts, cheapo taking an extra turn, cheapo drawing cards, and stuff that's lets you reuse the cheapo stuff

I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on, since I have no first-hand experience and it appears you guys do. All I was conjecturing was to make it more "appealing" to players, you have to get rid of the conception that you need the broken cards. If you guys say they aren't necessary, then perhaps that needs to be more widely spread.

Obviously it doesn't help that WOTC doesn't support it "officially" or regularly or whatever, but if there was a grassroots movement to create Type II/Standard to begin with (and then Extended), surely there can be one to get Type 1 more recognized.

 

[BigBlue]

Should Type 1 be for 7-8 guys who spent $1000 for their P9, or the rest of us?

How long should wizards make type 1 strictly for 31337?

 

[theorgg]

1.5 is a format more in-line with what I"m accustomed to, and is probably my constructed format of choice... I've won several local 1.5 tournaments, and I've enjoyed it, too!