Red/Blue

[Haggen]

I want to build a Red/Blue Deck, but I don't know were to start, what should I consider on building it?

Please help.

 

[Spiderman]

What cards from what sets do you have available? Is this for casual play or tourney play?

 

[Captain Caveman]

The old Shard Phoenix/Disk/Counter decks were pretty good.

I'm not to sure about Type II.

 

[Purple_jester]

Most red-blue decks are heavy control archtypes. There are 4 essential elements in building a good R/U:

1. Counterspells and other forms of blue control.

Examples: Counterspell, Forbid, Mana Leak, Force of Will

2. Card-drawing, again provided by the blue element.

Examples: Whispers of the Muse, Opt, Fact or Fiction, Opportunity

3. Cheese, provided by red of course.

Examples: Lightning Bolt, Flametongue Kavu, Shock, Urza's Rage

4. 2 to 4 creatures which are either difficult to kill, really big, or both.

Examples: Morphling, Palinchron, Shard Phoenix, Lightning Angel

 

[Benja83]

What I have made:
I use the red cards for big damage (Fireblast, Goblin grenade , incinerate, lightning Bolt, Pyrokinesis) and alot of cheap goblins ( either to sacrifice them to play goblin grenade, or to block)
With blue I use counterspell and deflection, to counter the cards from my opponent, and Whispers of the Muse to draw enough cards.
This works pretty well against my friends, but it's only for friendly games not tournament

 

[TylersOnFire]

so you're just countering and redirecting stuff to hold them off long enough to burn them to death?? hehe cool....

 

[Jigglypuff]

If you like more controllish red/blue decks, try CounterPhoenix. Basically, the deck relies on excess card-drawing from Thieving Magpie or Ophidian, Whispers, and maybe something else. The Phoenix can be discarded to pay for Forbid's buyback cost and the card-drawing helps fuel that also. You win by controlling the board through counters, the Phoenix, and burn and you win by dropping the Phoenixes and attacking for the win. There's a lot of articles on the Net discussing the deck for more detailed information.

For a more unique red/blue deck, I threw together a deck that drew a lot of cards through Howling Mines and Concentrates, played a whole bunch of unblockable creatures, then I would attack with everything, play Rites of Initiation and discard my hand to give my creatures +7/+0 and win. It works pretty good, but you need to watch out for Fog.

(- Steve -)

 

[Haggen]

Fine, I have lots of counterspells-like. Lots of burn.

Based on purple's advice my weakness is on have big/difficult to kill creatures, and a big lack of card-drawing.

I'll try to use some of creatures I own:
Thundermare
Keldon Champion
Eron
Zephid
Silver Wyvern
Lighting Angel

Will these do the job?

For card drawing all I have is some spells to buy 2 cards.

And what about permanent-return spells like boomerang and so on?

 

[Purple_jester]

Best types of bounce with regard to U/R: Wash Out, Aether Burst, Rushing River, and my special favorite, Capsize.

Of your big creatures, Thundermare, Keldon Champion, Eron and Lightning Angel will do nicely.

Regarding card drawing, try to have 3 to 4 spells that cost 1, such as Opt, Whispers of the Muse, or Brainstorm (all of which are commons). Good 2cc spells include Predict, Accumulated Knowledge (play with 4 or none at all), and Impulse (these are common or uncommon). Other good spells include Fact or Fiction and Opportunity. Finally some bit of advice regarding card drawers: instants are always better.

 

[Haggen]

Ok then.

I'll build the deck.
After this I'll play with it and I come back to tell.

And thanks for the advice, purple!

 

[Killer Joe]

Don't forget the White for the Lightning Angel.

 

[Haggen]

The deck did not work.

Probably because I used too expensive counter spells cards (like rewind) and some self destruct red cards (flame rift).

Also I had no defense so I build the deck with some fog bank.

I helped but couldn´t do the job.

Not enough card drawing cards.

I don´t have capsize so I put jilt and boomerang.

I think that the lack of mass destruction cards like nevininral, jukolhaups or apocalypse.

What do you think?

 

[Purple_jester]

1. Flame Rift does not work in U/R. Use Flame Rift for Sligh. In U/R, the primary purpose of the cheese is to get rid of opposing creatures, something Flame Rift cannot do.

2. When playing U/R, remember the key is CONTROL, not aggression. Use your bounce, burn and counterspells to prevent your opponent from playing or keeping anything on the board which can allow them to win.

3. When playing bounce, spells which bounce multiple permanents are better. Examples include Wash Out, Aether Burst, Rushing River or Capsize (because it repeatedly once you have 6 mana).

4. Counters which cost 1 to 3 mana are best. Examples: Counterspell, Mana Leak, Dissipate, and Forbid. Spells which cost 4 or more mana would ideally be "free" like Foil or Force of Will, and even then there should be no more than 2 to 4 of them.

5. Tailor your spells to match the environment. People are more the weenie type? Use Pyroclasm, Fire (and Ice), or Breath of Darigaaz. Larger creatures? Use Flametongue Kavu, Volcanic Hammer or Lightning Bolt. Token creatures? Bounce will kill them just as easily as cheese can.

Here's an example of a favorite U/R build of mine:

Lands: (24)
2 City of Brass
12 Island
10 Mountain

Creatures: (2)
2 Firestorm Hellkite

Cheese: (10)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Breath of Darigaaz
2 Arc Lightning
2 Flametongue Kavu

Counters: (12)
4 Counterspell
4 Forbid
2 Force of Will
2 Mana Leak

Bounce: (2)
2 Capsize

Card-Drawing: (10)
4 Whispers of the Muse
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Fact or Fiction

Tell me what you have, and I can suggest substitutes if you're missing any cards.

 

[Haggen]

City of Brass?
...no, and no one wants to trade with me, I must find some dual land or similar from someone that is giving up on playing magic (yuk yuk yuk)

The big gold dragon?
No big gold dragon to use. But I have Thundermare and Avatar of Fury for red and Silver Wyvern for blue.

cheese? I love chesse, reminds me...pizza...
Lighting bolt ok. To tell the truth I have a large amount of bolt-type, like thunderbolt, incinerate, sonic burst, shock and so on.
Piroclasma-like I just have one. One piroclasma itself.

And just one cheese-creature: Keldon Champion.

Bounce?
Damn, I know capsize rules, it's cheap and it comes back, but all I have is jilt an boomerang for instants. I must get capsize from someone.

card-draw
Is Whispers of the Muse that good? Accumulated Knowledge I just got one, so it's useless for the time being. No fact or fiction indeed.

counter
Forbid I have 3.
CounterSpell is ok.
No Force of Will though, maybe I could change for Foil or Rethink?

You're correct when you correct me by telling what should be the main purpose of the U/R deck (control). I thought it on the wrong way so I build it wrong too. Still I have not enough red cards to control my oponent's creatures, I think, and not enough blue cards yet to maintain my hand full of cards and my stoping my oponent from do something about attack...

 

[Spiderman]

The Counter/Phoenix decks and its ilk were well-honed tourney decks; if you're just playing casual and since it seems you don't have a lot of cards that people are suggesting to follow this archetype, you can go some other ways.

Make a kind of "blue weenie" or Merfolk deck and use red for burn/creature removal. Use Sunken Cities to help pump up the weenies, Unstable Mutation to get further hits in, Control Magic and its kind to gain control of troublesome big creatures that your opponent might have.

Mana denial, with Psychic Venoms and Stone Rains/Pillages as the main way to deny mana. Just use a couple of your big creatures once you gain control of the board.

 

[Haggen]

Fine, I really understand.
For I have more questions, you bet.

Just you wait.
To Build decks is not my strong point.