RB Reanimator Cheese

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Terentius

Guest
What is it that you think that means, though? It seems to me that if one card can be a crutch, then any card could be a crutch. Even for the worst cards in the game, it's possible to construct decks that rely on those cards. This is a zero-sum game.
Any card? Maybe, but I think this is somewhat obtuse. Most players would agree that Dark Ritual and Rancor are two of the best cards at what they do, and in all of Magic. For me personally, including these cards in each deck I made that has the capacity for them would be... mentally lazy? When it comes to casual Constructed, what's the point of playing if you're just going to coast with the same cards that are the best tools in the game all the time? Where's the challenge? Does anyone even enjoy playing against someone like that? If you're a competitive player, or if you don't keep multiple decks at a time, that's a different story. Otherwise... I think you use powerful cards as a "crutch", and you lack style. I'm not saying not to use Dark Ritual, I'm saying I don't like the idea of "Black? Automatic Dark Ritual.".

Oversoul said:
A lot of people play this game. Many pride themselves on their imagination. Some even professionally rely on being imaginative. But how that comes out in Magic varies from person to person. Some people prefer building their own decks that offer something new and unique. Some people prefer to refine existing decks and optimize them for an environment. Some people prefer to express themselves more in gameplay than in deck design. Some people express themselves through art. Some people like to build decks around a theme, caring more about flavor than about what the deck actually does. Some people really like a certain card or type of deck, and prefer exploring the space therein. Some people don't express their imagination or style in Magic at all, using other outlets to do that and simply playing Magic to unwind or perhaps to socialize with friends. There's nothing wrong with any of these. I'd think everyone should know that. And yet, I see players claim a lack of style/creativity/imagination/ingenuity/wit/etc. in others over some particular detail, whether it's netdecking, only playing a certain color, only playing certain formats, playing with certain cards, playing combo decks, playing control decks, playing aggro decks, playing with expensive cards, playing with other people's cards, or just not playing the game in what is perceived to be the right way. There's no call for any of that. The Magic community can be big and wide open for all kinds of different forms of expression and contribution to the game...
And that's all totally fine. I'm not gonna rag on a guy just because he plays with his favorite black deck with Dark Ritual, Dark Confidant, Desecration Demon, etc.. I guess I'm really talking to deckcrafters (which, I think, many people on this forum are). Maybe it only applies to me because of the way I play the game (I actually play most other types of games with this mindset). I have 25 assembled decks right now, 7 of them have black, and 3 of those have Dark Ritual (yikes, even that's a lot compared to 1 deck with Rancor). If you're gonna call yourself a deckcrafter, branch out! Challenge yourself!

Confusing. You say it's hypothetical, then in the same sentence you say that it isn't. Something can't be both hypothetical and not hypothetical. That's a logical contradiction.
The fact that something exists doesn't negate a hypothetical supposition of that thing. What I'm saying is I'm not explicitly defining exactly what all cards are "crutches", nor which environment these "crutches" are used, nor what all type of players use them.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Any card? Maybe, but I think this is somewhat obtuse. Most players would agree that Dark Ritual and Rancor are two of the best cards at what they do, and in all of Magic.
Yeah, I agree.

For me personally, including these cards in each deck I made that has the capacity for them would be... mentally lazy?
Because that's how you want to approach the game. That's how you want to challenge yourself or whatever. Not everyone goes about things in that way...

When it comes to casual Constructed, what's the point of playing if you're just going to coast with the same cards that are the best tools in the game all the time? Where's the challenge? Does anyone even enjoy playing against someone like that?
Some people like to build decks in which all of the cards have the same artist. Some people like to build decks that have esoteric themes, where the cards tell a story if you know what to look at. Some people just like dragons and want to play with as many as possible. Some people don't like deckbuilding at all. I think people like you, who focus on designing practical casual decks and prefer to mix things up, are great for the game. You help make casual Magic into a special experience, something that has different things to offer from whatever the current tournament fad might be. But other people go about it in other ways, and that's legitimate too.

If you're a competitive player, or if you don't keep multiple decks at a time, that's a different story. Otherwise... I think you use powerful cards as a "crutch", and you lack style. I'm not saying not to use Dark Ritual, I'm saying I don't like the idea of "Black? Automatic Dark Ritual."
You ever see Nether Void decks? I haven't actually seen one in a long time, but they used to be semi-popular. They were monoblack decks that didn't use Dark Ritual because it was disadvantageous to do so. OK, so that's competitive anyway, but still, not every black deck benefits from Dark Ritual. There could be all sorts of reasons not to use it.

And that's all totally fine. I'm not gonna rag on a guy just because he plays with his favorite black deck with Dark Ritual, Dark Confidant, Desecration Demon, etc.. I guess I'm really talking to deckcrafters (which, I think, many people on this forum are). Maybe it only applies to me because of the way I play the game (I actually play most other types of games with this mindset). I have 25 assembled decks right now, 7 of them have black, and 3 of those have Dark Ritual (yikes, even that's a lot compared to 1 deck with Rancor). If you're gonna call yourself a deckcrafter, branch out! Challenge yourself!
I was going to point out that this seemed like something that would generate a bizarre reverse pecking order situation. Like, 43% of your black decks use Dark Ritual, so you're critical of the laziness of someone for whom it's 100%. And then there might be someone else for whom it's only 10%, and that person might be critical of your laziness. And there could be someone else at 0%, critical of the whole lot of you. This is silly. But anyway, I reread what you actually wrote...

It seems like you're essentially saying that, for people who want to focus primarily on casual deckcrafting, it would behoove them to diversify and find more obscure solutions to problems, rather than taking a well-beaten path. And really, I completely agree with that.

The fact that something exists doesn't negate a hypothetical supposition of that thing. What I'm saying is I'm not explicitly defining exactly what all cards are "crutches", nor which environment these "crutches" are used, nor what all type of players use them.
I can't parse this, but I think that you pretty much answered the question with your previous paragraph, so whatever. What I'd meant was that players are either real or they're hypothetical. This is dependent on what you meant, anyway. There's a difference between someone who prefers to use Dark Ritual if playing black (I'd say that describes me) and someone who is actually, seriously incapable of building a black deck without the card. Like, you'd give them a bunch of black cards and swamps, and they'd just sit there, paralyzed by the lack of Dark Ritual. I'd think that the first instance describes real people, but the second is only hypothetical, that there's no one actually like that.
 
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Terentius

Guest
Then we have an understanding. Fantastic.

Can we go back to talking about how awesome my deck is now?
 
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