play variant: deck yourself

[tyger51]

im trying to come up with a way to make a variant where you deck yourself to win
some preliminary rules:
"x" should be self explanatory
if a player would recieve damage, the controller of the source of the damage takes x cards from his library and puts them into his graveyard.
if a player would gain life, he must use a "reclaim" effect x times
cards that involve paying life are banned (for now)
60 card minimum
if i have missed anything with these rules let me know
also let me know of cards that should be banned (like hermit druid)
let me know about the paying life rule also

 

[DÛke]

I think you're looking for a card called Crumbling Sanctuary!

 

[tyger51]

the point of the variant is to run YOURSELF out of cards
also if anyone has a good name for the variant let me know

 

[Istanbul]

That's EASY.

I'll play Thought Lash.
Next turn, I'll opt not to pay the upkeep.
I win!

 

[krichaiushii]

Oath of Druids and no creatures in the deck?

How would this version work with Lich?

All one color, multiple Grindstones?

 

[Zadok001]

"All one color, multiple Grindstones"

What about land?

I would personally run Thought Lash. Screw the upkeep, just use the ability a bunch! After all, it helps deck you. (The card wouldn't be _quite_ so bad if its ability didn't feel like a drawback.) And use the ability on your opponents. Does that work? What's the wording?

"A name? How 'bout 'What Did I Do That For?' J/K"

 

[Duel]

this is too broken. Some banned cards:

Thoughtlash (Duh!)
Oath of druids
Grindstone (? I actually think it shouldn't be.)

I'd say a blue/green stroke deck would win. Zadok? Your field here, methinks?

 

[tyger51]

paradigm shift also needsto be banned
what do you think about tormod's crypt in a deck?

 

[Duel]

you're right, there.

Tornod's? Why would that be good?

 

[Zadok001]

'Cause you can Paradign Shift yourself to victory. I can see Grindstone going with Mana *whatever* (the thing that lets you remove land from your library). Outside of that, lots of BLUE search, card drawing, and a couple counters and (most importantly) FoW. FoW will keep other (in theory) from going off with their own decking combos. Here's a rough version:

4 Annul (notice all the artifacts and enchantments we're talking about?)
4 Force Spike (I'm hoping we're just gonna win when we hit 3 mana and can Grind for the win)
4 Mana *Whatever*
3 Grindstone
4 FoW
4 Disrupt (Counter the other guy's search)
4 Intution (Grindstone will counter it's own effect, so I have these to fetch them, and also keep them out of your deck's way)
4 Foil
4 Mystical Tutor (Get Intutions or Mana *whatevers*)
25 Island

Simple, and effective. Prolly not an autowin, I can see Oath doing better if it's used well. But Force Spike, FoW, and Annul might weaken that some. Thought Lash might actually be better in this exact deck, here's a list for that:

4 FoW
4 Disrupt
4 Force Spike
4 Foil
4 Annul
4 Daze
4 Thought Lash
4 Intuition
4 Mystical Tutor
24 Island

I give you, almost CERTAIN win on the fourth turn. Early Mystical if you need to, grab an Intuition, or just cast Intuition, or just cast a Thought Lash. You have 12 cards that can win you the game if you draw them in the first 4 turns, and enough mana to cast them with 24 lands. Once you have the 'Lash, you win. Either use it 'til you die, or just don't pay the upkeep once.

The free counters I've focused on let you counter after you tap out for Thought Lash, Daze being the least useful, since, if you use it, you slow yourself down. Annul stops Oath. Foil, FoW, and the U cc counters will do the rest. I'm thinking that's nigh-on perfect for this format.

 

[tyger51]

never mind about the crypt
earlier versions had the option of forcing opponents to "reclaim" if they were damaged
as you can see dealing 45 damage would be hard so it takes longer to win with creatures. the whole point of the variant is to stop stupid red and green decks. it seems thought lash must be banned. what other cards should?

 

[Zadok001]

Oath of Druids. Grindstone. Paradign Shift. Probably one or two others.

 

[Duel]

Grindstone's fine. I approve of it. It's not broken, I don't think. Just dominant.

 

[krichaiushii]

Mana Severance is the card name escaping you. Either that card or Grindstone should go, as Mana Severance lets you remove any number of lands from your deck for 1U. Followed by a Grindstone, and poof...

Would you believe that when I made my first post, I implied that Mana Severance had already been cast?

Demonic Consultation (name a card not in your deck, or just in your hand) might need banned.

Hermetic Druid sends cards to the graveyard until you find a basic land. For 2GG (casting cost AND activation of ability) I can move my deck into my graveyard.

A card to definitely consider in the deck would be Browse, it shouldn't be banned, but should probably be played. Foresight and Vision Charm, too.

Can you target yourself with Denying Wind and Jester's Cap?

Buried Alive could be considered for a creature heavy version of the deck, as well.

Just some ideas.

 

[Spiderman]

You can target yourself with Denying Wind and Jester's Cap. They say "target player", not "target opponent".

 

[tyger51]

grindstone probably should be restricted more than one in play would be bad and its easy to search for artifacts these days with tinker and the tutors

 

[Zadok001]

Actually, restricting it makes the situation worse, not better. See, if you don't restrict it, then people will play four. And, upon using one, they run into the others. So, smart players would be restricting it themselves.

I would say ban Mana Severence instead. It's more troublesome, the 'Stone is only good then, not broken.

 

[krichaiushii]

So what do we have so far? A blue/artifact deck.

I think that the Deepspawn (6/6 trample, upkeep mills you for two, either Homelands or Dark... wait, I have six from packs, it must be Homelands) would be a good choice -- it's a homarid, too! Add Browse, Tinkers, artifact mana, High Tide, and searchers (Frantic Search, Tolarian Winds), maybe Denying Wind and/or Jester's Cap, and Anvil of Bogarden -- though this last helps your opponent, and there might be a deck.

Conversely, just use fast black and play Forbidden Crypt, with nothing in the graveyard. And/or Planar Void and Tormod's Crypt for fun. As Forbidden Crypt makes your graveyard your library, you quickly deck yourself.

Use green to Repopulate your opponent?

How many artifact books have a discarding effect besides Jalum Tome?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Duel]

What about that big creature that decks the top eight cards of your library every turn?