Perhaps there is yet more work to be done.

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Cateran Emperor, Apr 5, 2001.

  1. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    Go to any major search engine and search for Casual Magic. Go ahead. I'll wait.

    Now, what did you see? I guarantee that it falls into one of two categories:

    1) Posts in single forums on boards where it seems merely a second thought, perhaps a half dozen threads and a dozen active participators.

    2) A post here

    I realized that we were growing in prominence, but I hadn't realized until now that we were actually the Casual site on the internet. We have been for quite a while for that matter, it seems. No other sites are growing to challenge us. If a casual player wants Casual Posts-Tournament posts in a 95-5 ratio rather than the other way around, they come here.

    We offer the greatest casual forums on the net, excellent articles, and a dedicated, friendly community of members. We are everything a casual player could want in a site.

    Or can we offer more?

    The illustrious Type I patriarch Rakso's primers got me to thinking: Why weren't we doing this? Rakso has been posting them for quite some time now, but none of our other members have really been contributing anything to such a fantastic idea. Then, after a few weeks, they would be bumped down into the archives of the main page to be forgotten. Rakso's hard work goes into Beyond Dominaria, and it shows. The primers he and some of their other members have made are excellent. There were also only so many there. Dozens of classic archetypes have been forgotten, but not through any fault of Rakso's. We should all be making our own primers for our favorite decks, as a tribute to them if nothing else.

    Rakso began with his beloved White Weenie primer. I'm currently working on my own Black Control primer (hopefully to be completed in the next week), to be followed by a Merfolk primer after that. Does anyone play Elves? Okay then, make an Elvish Encyclopedia. Zombies your favorite? Go to work then! Goblins, Dragons, Rebels, they're all waiting. Let's make even more resources available to our lurking brethren who visit but do not post.

    This brings to mind my second point. What on earth do we do with these once they're done. Certainly, we could post them on the main page with the rest of the articles. If we do that though, we serve these efforts two injustices: a Lack of Attention, and a Lack of Permanence. Why not solve both issues at the same time?

    A Recommended process for the CPA Primers:

    Step 1: Actually writing the primers. We should make these sanctioned by as many CPA members as possible, with one person responsible for actually writing it and the rest there to add their own thoughts. These threads would not even need a new forum. It could go here, or in the Deck forum, or even in the Single Card Strategies forum.

    Step 2: Submit it to an editor. NOT for posting on the front page as an article, but simply to edit them. If it is to represent us, let's try to keep it as free from misspellings and incorrect punctuation as we can.

    Step 3: This is the important one. Ed, if you're reading, this one is for you to read: actually posting the Primer. I believe I have a solution for where to put it for maximum accessibility. On the front page, the left side contains a sidebar full of navigation links. If Ed agrees to create a section for Primers, we can give our efforts maximum exposure.

    I think that CPA primers are a potential first step to making the CPA the place we all know it can be and want it to be: a haven for casual players. Not just the greatest community Magic has on the net, but a comprehensive resource for the casual player at the same time.

    Any thoughts or suggestions here are welcome.
  2. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Interesting...but I thought Casual was all about making decks that are fun, not netdecking stuff that's sub-tier-one...

    I hate it when I make a deck...think of a similar deck...and the thought pops into my head..."This U/W...thing...sucks. It needs moats and Serra Angels and Morphlings...and I've two Serra Advocate, one Collective Restraint, and an Island Sancuary."...and I throw the stack into the TO SORT pile and wish I hadn't waisted my time.

    This is the only time I consider "wasted" on Magic. Not buying hundreds more cards I'll never use. Not playtesting crappy deck #1 against crappy deck #4. Not even sleeving and unsleeving decks.

    I fear this hatred for building the "incorrect" deck (ie: B/W that isn't The Deck, or in T2, R/G that isn't Fires, or W/G that isn't Blasto-Geddon, etc...) will spread by these...primmers. It stifles any and all creativity by saying "You aren't doing that right! You have to run Paralax Wave, not Wrath! FOOL! Never set yourself apart from the crowd! Conform or be made an unperson!"
  3. Almindhra Magic's Bitch

    Actually, if I type in the name of Almindhra, besides some of my websites popping up, I get various posts from the CPA that I've done...Odd...[and I will probably add mroe to my comment, but I'm dead tired at 1 in the morn]...
  4. Landkiller CPA Menace

    It's Different, though.

    Casual decks aren't proven, as by tournament wins. It's all a matter of opinion. So these primers are a good idea, I think. They don't provide "netdecks" but provide a solid base of options. Plus, netdecks have histories. You may encounter something entirely original here, as a variant of a Merfolk deck for example, somebody tried something original, and you see it. Does that make you less original? Hardly. (Unless you're the kind of person who refuses to read the book before you watch the movie. Then, it's all about a sense of awe and inspiration. Unless you saved $5 by not watching a movie based on a crappy book:))
    If you want to design your own deck, there's plenty of spins you can put on it. Personal decisions based on what you like, and what you play against.

    I like Cateran's idea, and would be able to help with a few.
  5. Mr_Pestilence Wumpus

    Good idea!

    Since my favorite card, Pestilence, has been pulled from the Basic set, it may be gone forever. In tribute to this card, which has given me so much pleasure over the years, I'll write an article on using this card, and create what I believe are the optimal decklists for playing Pestilence in Type 1 and Extended.

    Thanks for the challenge!
  6. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    *Gives Mr. Pestilence a pat on the back*

    i was wondering how you'd respond to such a loss. Don't worry, maybe it will be in Odyssey. At least you have Plague Spitter, Mr. Mini-Pestilence.

    Now Hetemi, I am in no way at all saying we should write articles on tournament builds, nor am I advocating a bunch of "sub-tier 1" decks. If you think either, I suggest you read my post again. What I'm suggesting is a chronicling of the great deck types that we've all come to love in the past. A new player can read these and have a glimpse at the old days. This allows us a chance to pay tribute to some of our favorite decks ever, while at the same time give the newer members an idea of what the heck we're talking about on the forums sometimes.
  7. Daggertooth The Rune Master

    I'm not sure I get what these primers are, but it does sound good. I'd love a place where I can go find nice Decks. Doesn't matter if there net decks or not.

    I have a great Dragon/Knight deck That might be fun to post. The pride of saying, "I made that deck :) ) will be cool.

    Daggertooth
  8. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Sounds like a good idea to me... I may go about writing a Greater Good primer eventually. :) *grin* Maybe not.

    I don't have access to site guts, but I'll see what I can do...
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Sounds like an OK idea to me (I went to General first before here, hence my question in General).

    One thing though, you might want to put time limits or something. The TeamMade card set in HomeMade cards has been going on FOREVER...
  10. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    My idea here is to make this an ongoing project. Simply put, this will be on a stricly voluntary basis. If several people want to make the same primer, I would simply say have one of them write it and then have the rest add on their comments.

    Black Control is about 70% complete at the moment. I'd say that everyone who wants to do one of these should start staking their claims now.
  11. rakso New Member

    Ouch. I spent 20 minutes typing a nice list of tips I remember, and it didn't go up! It's all gone!
  12. rakso New Member

    Sigh...

    I'll try to retype all my thoughts.

    First of all, CPA IS the haven for casual players or even those who just want a breather. The Resource part is noble, though, so let's get to it!

    Some random tips:

    1) Primer must be about UNDERLYING STRATEGY, not a decklist.

    You want to show the guy a sample list, but let him be able to change it any way he wants because he knows how it works, thanks to you.

    Remember Bethmo? Deck Deconstruction? That sucked! They were usually a list of cards plus some commentary taken from a Dojo article. That may be harsh, sorry, but you know what I mean.

    For example. I didn't just say Elvish Spirit Guide speeds up Stompy so use it over 4 Forest. I said the extra mana turn 1 is like taking an extra turn! Now, THAT's a solid explanation.

    So when your casual guy goes, "I'm playing Draco in this deck," he can go, "But dude, I know how to use him like a Morphling!"


    2) Get some history and personality.

    I try to trace roots. I quote old but memorable plays. I solicit help from people I e-mail. If you look at my WW Primer, Sean McKeown wrote part of the Armageddon demonstration. Etcetera.

    Casual? I wanted to show that Sligh decks have such a consistent STRUCTURE (over individual cards) so I quoted the BYOB of the Invitational.

    Alex Shvartsman is now forcibly reminiscing about why he picked Sligh in BYOB. Lol, right? Right!


    3) Get some drama.

    Key plays. Key quotes. Dig up on MTGSpider or the old Dojo threads that are no longer linked. It's worth it.

    Even a play-by-play to demonstrate in the intro brings stuff to life!

    But... no inside jokes about just your play group (unless you're Anthony Alongi).


    4) Be brief, though.

    Don't ramble on! But don't cut corners on explaining the fine details of important plays.


    5) Include easy references

    I include card text, deck lists, and the date of all references.


    6) Make some "general" primers.

    Some aspects of casual play are unique to casual play only. Multiplayer politics. How "card advantage" works differently. You should have independent primers, like Beyond Dominia's Budget Deckbuilding primer.


    7) Always include "budget" notes.

    You might get an old player who quit reading about a new deck, or a new player reading about an old deck. :)


    8) Always include RULES notes.

    Always worth including for key cards.


    9) Use a public review system

    On BD, we publicly have a guy announce he'll do a primer so there's no duplication. Then, it's posted in public, and everyone adds comments if needed. A revision is made, and existing debate is incorporated if nothing is resolved. I give a signal if it's okay, or say if it has to be touched up further.


    10) Archive

    We set them aside in BD and made the link very prominent.

    This is so newer guys can read them and no longer need to repeat all the discussions every week.

    Some Phyrexia.com regulars have accused me on Beyond Dominia of stuffing net decks down my people's throats because I did primers. Others are too lazy to read them, anyway.

    The point is to orient newer guys on the easy questions so they can ask the tough questions, which is why I even advise making sure they know what are NOT in your decks. :)


    I'll add stuff if I remember anything, but again, congratulations and good luck. I'll help any way I can. I can get quotes from people I correspond with, I can look over a few drafts for you, and I can link stuff to Beyond DOminia's Casual Mill (you can post any of my stuff anytime).

    I hope this little bud blossoms in CPA, guys! :)
  13. Sammy Dead-O wasting away again

    I got dibs on Minotaurs.

    I've started writing it, but I may have to wait until I see how my Shady Milkcow deck does at regionals before I finish it.

    This is fun!
  14. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    New time set on Black Multiplayer for Friday. I'm planning on going into a multiplayer Black Diplomacy guide, or "How to Make the Friend of Your Enemy His Enemy"
  15. rakso New Member

    A black mage playing diplomat?

    I like it! :)

    Someone warn me when you start talking about, "How to give tokens using Varchild's War Riders..."

    BTW, Didgridoos... sigh... :)

    Emperor, you may want to check this new thing out, BTW. It has a bit of everything. It's got a really casual deck at the bottom and Jon Finkel's 1998 World Championship report excerpts somewhere in the middle (ever seen a control player play burn? He still calculates how much he'll cheese the opponent! Wow.)

    http://www.bdominia.addr.com/discus/messages/9/13311.shtml
  16. Chernobyl Hamster New Member

    umm... well, this may sound a little odd, but i found out about this site by typing "casual playing magic:the gathering" in a search engine. Perhaps it is expanding more than you think, of course, i wouldn't know. i'm a lowly newbie.
  17. Sammy Dead-O wasting away again

    Yep...the Pied Piper of cows...the forgotten Homelands power card...red's Dark Ritual...um...

    That sigh was a good thing, right?:)

    I remember reading that the Minotaur-powering Homelands cards (Didgeridoo, Anaba Spirit Crafter, Anaba Ancestor) might have been the reason Anaba Bodyguard was initially a Summon Bodyguard instead of Minotaur. They didn't want the dangerous 2/3 first-striker to become too powerful, after all.:D

    I actually hope I can end up with the guts to play some Minotaurs at regionals next week. Tahngarth is awesome, Talruum Minotaur is respectable...but losing with Anaba Shaman is just going to get me laughed at. We'll see...
  18. Salacious Crumb SevaTheSovietSoapDish

    I don't really care about the popularity of this website. No offense or anything of course. I just think it doesn't matter. It's not like we'll get some "website of the year" award from the president, or even better, britney spears.

    Hoipa
  19. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    Read some of rakso's primers at BDominia. They'll give you an idea of what I have in mind (I thought I'd said it before, but maybe it still needs explaining)
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I don't think this is being done for "popularity" or to draw more users. It's just a resource so "casual" Magic players have something to go to instead of/in addition to asking questions on the board.

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