Palestinians need to find the real enemy...

[arhar]

This is my last attempt at a serious topic about what's happening at Middle East.

Different nations of the world (mainly Arabs and USA) have given a LOT of money for the purpose of making the palestinians' life a little better. They are desperate and poor people, and they stayed that way for decades. What do you think happened to that money? Yasser Arafat and the other ruling people of PA don't know.

Or maybe Palestinians should've got angry at Jordan, who massacred them with tanks in the '60s....

The point is, Israel is NOT the only, or the main source of their problems. Yasser Arafat is known in the MIddle East for stirring trouble - even the president of Egypt hates him. Of course, Israel is not fully right in what they're doing. But all of you who think you know everything really need to shut the oink up.

 

[DÛke]

...

Sorry Arhar. Nobody in these boards *ever* clamied to know *everything* except you, when you said something like "...even though I know my people are right..." in another thread.

Knowing *very* few *facts* is better than knowing tons, and tons, and tons of biased, or untruthful "facts." I think anyone would agree.

<laughs> You say the President of Egypt hates Arafat? I will not even discuss that. In any case, here's something for you, concerning Egypt...

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/29/egypt.reax/index.html (What the President of Egypt thinks...)


http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html

And since you like Bush so much...

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/13/mideast/index.html

And those are just from the CNN. Imagine something from the U.K. or Arabian nations. That'd probably stirr your blood for ages to come...

Call all of *them* liers...I'd love to see that...

 

[Spiderman]

arhar: I'd have to agree with Duke in asking where is it known that Mubarak hates Arafat?

Although the links provided really state that Mubarak is against the current invasion, not really what his personal feelings are. He might be able to keep his personal and official business separate.

Oh yeah, how much money are we talking about? I read something that Israel is the number 1 beneficiary of US aid, followed by Egypt. So is Palestine #3 or further down the list?

DUke:

Knowing *very* few *facts* is better than knowing tons, and tons, and tons of biased, or untruthful "facts." I think anyone would agree.

I agree, but who's to say those few facts are unbiased or truthful also? Those facts have to be known and exposed for everyone to agree on in the first place...

 

[DÛke]

...destroy the need to "bet," "think," and just gamble with opinions...

Let's *please* not talk about the U.S. lending "support" anymore. Is it just like it lent "support" to Afghanistan? Because to be honest, Afghanis are not happy with the fact that the U.S. has chosen the president.

Where's Bin Ladin?

Here's the direct truth here, like it or not: the U.S. wanted to extended its oil industry in that area. The Afghani "support" is merely just a masquerade in order to literarly *replace* the government, and put a new one that is exactly nothing more than a puppet under the control of the U.S.. This way, the U.S. can do whatever it desires in that area, simply because it has control over the "president," or...to be much, much more exact...the puppet.

The "war on terrorism" you hear about is like a cover up. It's a war to gain control of important resources, or to further hurt and destroy all those that even assume a threat against the U.S.. As good as this may sound to people who think they're living in a "free country," it's a fact that the cost of your "freedom" is the cost of others' lives. If you're ok with that, than there's no problem whatsoever, and this whole discussion is pointless...

I'm *not* bringing *any* resources. Read *everything* you can...if you doubt me, please take it out somewhere else, like on the lack of knowledge you may posses.

Call it "War on Terrorism," call it a "the Peace Treaty," call it whatever you want...because it is one and one thing only, a shameful scheme. I know it. France knows it. The U.K. knows it. Russia knows it. Germany knows it. We know it...does the U.S. government know it, or are they *that* stupid after all? Now *that's* where I'd like place *my* bet...

 

[Spiderman]

Oil?!? I think you've been reading too many conspiracy sites...

 

[DÛke]

...

What, you mean to tell me you didn't know...oil!?!?

Wow...

 

[Spiderman]

I'm just laughing now.... oil, "direct truth", puppet government... you just always brighten my day with humor...

 

[DÛke]

...laugh all you want. Better than crying, right?

I can understand that such a shocking revelation wouldn't just go through the minds of the many...the truth has always been and will always be hard to handle. Subconscious self denial goes a long way...obviously...

Glad I'm not one of those...

Why don't you read a good book or something...

"Jiahd Versus McWorld." One of many books you could read. Nothing about terrorism. Understand it, and you're a step closer to a better general understanding of the world you live in. Try to relate it to everything we've talked about...

 

[Spiderman]

"shocking revelation"? Oh yeah, real shocking... just like that Magic article about suicide...

 

[arhar]

Originally posted by DÛke


Sorry Arhar. Nobody in these boards *ever* clamied to know *everything* except you, when you said something like "...even though I know my people are right..." in another thread.

Some people on this board have NEVER said one of the following : I agree. You're right. Yeah., that's probably the case. SOME PEOPLE think they have the ultimate knowledge about everything, and need to voice their opinion on every subject.

<laughs> You say the President of Egypt hates Arafat? I will not even discuss that. In any case, here's something for you, concerning Egypt...

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/29/egypt.reax/index.html (What the President of Egypt thinks...)


http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html

And since you like Bush so much...

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/03/13/mideast/index.html

And those are just from the CNN. Imagine something from the U.K. or Arabian nations. That'd probably stirr your blood for ages to come...

Call all of *them* liers...I'd love to see that... [/B]

And what's your point? What does that have to do with the point I made? My point isn't about Israel!!! It's about Palestinians. If you missed it, my point is: Palestinian people need better leaders than Yasser Arafat. Arafat is a supporter of terrorism and loves to stir s### up. Yet again, you have to chime in with one of your conspiracy theories that have NOTHING to do with the subject....

 

[Daggertooth]

Good books. Better yet, read 1984. That'll show you the real nature of the world.


what do you think made Palistine desperate and poor in the first place? The fact that their holy land was basicaly stolen and a buttload of our money and technology going strait to Isarael. Making them the strongest power in the region. Unless you think a few pennies compensates for putting them under israel occupation.

Despite what you may think we have given palistine, we have given isarael alot more to beat up on them.

Daggertooth

 

[DÛke]

...

Arhar, I know what you meant. It's so pointless though, because I can't even argue against it -- because it's so wrong. I have *no* clue where you get those ideas from. The U.S. and Israels are the only countries that *may* think he's bad. Tell me, in who's eye is he "supporter of terrorism and loves to stir s### up"? Is that *your* opinion, because we've already past all opinions, and they're pointless...

Example...It would be *my* opinion that Bush is bad. However, to have tons of countires and even American people that think Bush is nothing more than a stupid redneck cowboy...now that kinda flushes out my opinion and takes it into a reality that most likely exists.

The subject of this this thread is such an opinion. Period. That's why I didn't answer it. It's your opinion, and I can't change that...you want to have a discussion? Read a couple of books, dive into some history, watch the news for months, and read the papers for eternity...*then* come back and argue. I doubt there'd be anything to argue about after that though, because you most likely will be agreeing with me to an extent...

 

[arhar]

Just because I don't show off my sources doesn't mean I don't have them.... I read books and did extensive research on this subject, and talked to a lot of actual people. But you're right (another thing you'd never say in your life) - this discussion is pointless.

 

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by Daggertooth


what do you think made Palistine desperate and poor in the first place? The fact that their holy land was basicaly stolen and a buttload of our money and technology going strait to Isarael. Making them the strongest power in the region. Unless you think a few pennies compensates for putting them under israel occupation.

What made them desperate and poor was losing "their own" (by that, the Arab nations in the area) surprise attacks on Israel. And that they can't seem to share the land in the first place. And "their holy land"? Hmm....

 

[Daggertooth]

Originally posted by Spiderman

What made them desperate and poor was losing "their own" (by that, the Arab nations in the area) surprise attacks on Israel. And that they can't seem to share the land in the first place. And "their holy land"? Hmm....

They lost that largly due to the fact that we gave alot of money and weapons to israel. And are you saying that the land isn't holy to them? odd.......

 

[Spiderman]

We didn't do squat at the time, Britain was their main aid then.

And I'm saying that it's not just holy to them, as you implied with "their".

 

[Daggertooth]

The fact remains that they are a power in the region largly due to initial and continual US support.

Sole possesion was not implied by "their". though I suppse it could have been seen that way. Regardless, the holy land that was removed from thier possesion was basicaly stollen.

Daggertooth

 

[Spiderman]

I find it interesting that neither the histories liked to in the Israel thread mention this initial US support.

How far back do we go to claims of this Holy Land? It was first holy to the Christians and Jews by about 700 years...

 

[Daggertooth]

Originally posted by Spiderman
I find it interesting that neither the histories liked to in the Israel thread mention this initial US support.

How far back do we go to claims of this Holy Land? It was first holy to the Christians and Jews by about 700 years...

So your saying that the US's initial support didn't help bring isarael into power?

The holy land was recently controlled by islam, and it wasn't nicely removed. But then thats whats sticky about this issue. But does it really matter who's it was hundreads of years ago?

Regardless, it's Isaraels now and thats not gonna change. But can the fighting be stopped?

Daggertooth

 

[Spiderman]

I'm saying that it wasn't "largely due to initial US" support. They may have supported it, but it was primarily Britain.

That's what I'm saying. If you bring in "whose land was it and who took it away", how far do you back?

Honestly, I don't think the fighting will stop because as I think one of the Hamas' goal's is the destruction of the Israel state. Hence, despite peace efforts by Arafat and others, they will always be undermined since the Hamas won't abide by it. You'd have to have the total destruction of the Hamas or the total destruction of Israel for the fighting to stop.