Odyssey: Red Turn Your Head?

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Gizmo, Sep 23, 2001.

?

Do you BROADLY agree with this account of Odyssey cards?

Poll closed Oct 6, 2001.
I think the red cards are generally better. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
I generally agree. 4 vote(s) 44.4%
I think the red cards are generally worse. 5 vote(s) 55.6%
Dont know/care 0 vote(s) 0.0%
  1. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Ill be using the novel ratings system of:
    :'( - Its so bad it makes me cry
    :-( - Its poor
    :-| - Its servicable. Might see some play
    :) - Its actually pretty good, should see extensive use.
    - Wa-Hey! I like this guy.

    and also

    :-? - Dunno how good this will be.
    - OMG! This looks like it could be a problem card.

    All ratings are given for standard without paying more than 3 seconds thought to what the card does. Cards might be good in other formats and I might mention that, but mainly Im talking about standard.


    Acceptable Losses :-(

    Anarchist :-(

    Ashen Firebeast :'(

    Barbarian Lunatic :-(

    Bash to Bits :'(

    Battle Strain :-(

    Blazing Salvo :-(

    Bomb Squad :-(

    Burning Sands :-|

    Chainflinger :-(

    Chance Encounter :'(

    Demolish (uncommon) :-(
    3R
    Sorcery
    Destroy target artifact or land.

    Splashable Pillage. But 4 feels like a lot of mana considering there arent many artifacts to kill.

    Demoralize :-(

    Dwarven Grunt :-(

    Dwarven Recruiter :-(

    Dwarven Shrine (rare) :-|
    1RR
    Enchantment
    Whenever a player plays a spell, Dwarven Shrine deals X damage to that player, where X is twice the number of cards in all graveyards with the same name as that spell

    The best of all this cycle of cards. I kind of like it actually, in a Spellshock kind of way. If it only did x damage it would be bad, but as its xx I like it.

    Dwarven Strike Force :-(

    Earth Rift :-(

    Ember Beast :)

    Engulfing Flames (uncommon) :'(
    R
    Instant
    Engulfing Flames deals 1 damage to target creature. It can’t be regenerated this turn.
    Flashback - 3R

    Kill target Lynx. If it could damage players it would be reasonable

    Epicenter (rare) :-|
    4R
    Sorcery
    Target player sacrifices a land.
    Threshold - All players sacrifice all lands instead.

    Geddon. A bad Geddon. But Geddon

    Firebolt (common) :D
    R
    Sorcery
    Firebolt deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
    Flasback - 4R

    I really like it. Probably better than Shock

    Flame Burst (common) :)
    Instant
    1R
    Flame Burst deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is 2 plus the number of Flame Burst cards in all graveyards.

    The 2cc burn spell slot is getting very competitive now - Fire/Ice, Lava, Burst? This is a good solid card

    Frenetic Ogre :-(

    Halberdier :-(

    Impulsive Maneuvers :'(

    Kamahl, Pit Fighter :-(

    Kamahl’s Desire :-(

    Lava Blister :-|

    Liquid Fire (uncommon) :-(
    4R
    Sorcery
    Liquid Fire deals 5 damage divided as you choose between target creature and the creature’s controller.

    Bad Pyrotechnics

    Mad Dog :)

    Magma Vein :-|

    Magnivore :'(

    Mine Layer (rare) :-(
    3R
    Creature - Dwarf
    1R, T: Put a mine counter on target land. Whenever a land with a mine counter on it becomes tapped, destroy it. When Mine Layer leaves play, remove all mine counters from all lands.
    1/1

    Hee hee :)

    Minotaur Explorer (uncommon) :-|
    1R
    Creature - Minotaur
    When Minotaur Explorer comes into play, sacrifice it unless you discard a card at random from your hand.
    3/3

    Im not a great fan of randomly pitching a card on turn 2 and I dont think that +1/+1 is a worthwhile bonus to gain for the cost

    Molten Influence (rare) :-(
    1R
    Instant
    Counter target instant or sorcery spell unless its controller has Molten Influence deal 4 damage to him or her.

    Why do people like this and not like Mages Contest which is approximately 17 million times better?

    Mudhole :-(

    Need for Speed :-(

    Obstinate Familiar :'(

    Pardic Firecat :-(

    Pardic Miner :'(

    Pardic Swordsmith :-(

    Price of Glory (uncommon) :-|
    2R
    Enchantment
    Whenever a player taps a land for mana during another player's turn, destroy that land.

    Not the hoser people think it is. Purely average

    Reckless Charge :-(

    Recoup :|

    Rites of Initiation (common) :-|
    R
    Instant
    Discard any number of cards at random from your hand. Creature you control get +1/+0 until end of turn for each card discarded this way.

    Woo-Hoo! BIG Call Of Blood type card. For R thats a reasonable effect

    Savage Firecat :-|

    Scorching Missile :-(

    Seize the Day :-(

    Shower of Coals :'(

    Spark Mage :-(

    Steam Vines (uncommon)
    1RR
    Enchant Land
    When enchanted land becomes tapped, destroy it and Steam Vines deals 1 damage to that land's controller. That player moves Steam Vines to a land of his or her choice.

    I was never around when Kudzu was around. Supposedly this card was good though. It feels to me like RR1- destroy target land, which is ok I suppose.

    Tremble (common) :'(
    1R
    Sorcery
    Each player sacrifices a land.

    A bad version of a bad card (Raze)

    Thermal Blast :'(

    Volcanic Spray :-(

    Volley of Boulders :-(

    Whipkeeper :-(


    I dont think very much of the red. It gets a few cards that seem to point to an LD deck, but LD is rarely good and it`ll just lead to people playing with Sacred Ground and red players bitching about not being able to destroy enchantments.
  2. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    Red is bad in this set. Kindle.... I mean, uh, flameburst is strong. Ember beast is fun, if you play with small red. It finds a slot in t2 sped red. Firebolt is great. Mad Dog feels bad to me, and minotaur explorer is good, I think. Especially with fire/ice, Scorching Lava, and Firebolt flying around.

    The best red burn here is not in that list. Barbarian Ring is strong.
  3. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Blazing Salvo isn't great, but being instant, it does nice things. Do you want that Bird? Really? Okay, 15. I untap, Firebolt it. Mmmm...Roast Paridisical Avians taste like chicken.

    I do like the Firecat...it's a cheap Red fattie.

    Flamin' Putty Tat vs. Shivan Wurm

    Cost: 3RR - 3RG
    Monocolor's better than Polychrome, but Green is the spash color. Nod to Firecat, becuase I'd rather splash R/W or R/U, than R/(W/U)/g

    Size: 7/7t - 7/7t
    Tie.

    Drawback: -1/-1 when you tap for mana - Bounce a critter
    While the Cat's in play, you can't really play spells lest you have artifacts, but then again, if it's eating your opponent, you shouldn't neet to tap much anyway. Wurm's drawback is negligabe.
    Nod to Wurm.

    If Red proves strong, this might become a kill mech. Otherwise, all Red has in the Big Guys department is Shivan, who is not exactly making the scene.

    Verdict on Red: :-J Not strong, but better than it was.
  4. Hellion New Member

    Red is my favorite color and seeing it degrade slowly with each block makes my heartache. I was filled with horror when they printed the situational burn spells...they are expensive to cast and can be ineffective.

    Situational burn spells are a no-no for red. They need to kill things NOW. maybe i was too pampered with all the previous burn spells like Seal of Fire, Incinerate, Lightning Bolt, Fireblast, Arc Lightning, Guerilla Tactics. so i'm passing a baised judgement of red nowadays. But mine you, Masques block still has classic red cards like Tectonic Break, 2 headed Dragon, Scorching lava, flowstone slide, obliterate, flowstone overseer to make it a playable color but now those are gone. Maybe Epicenter, Stone rain, Pillage and Demolish will make a LD deck viable but it lacks efficient control creatures.

    Kamahl pit fighter? Emberbeast? too expensive to cast and does a little too little for it's casting cost.

    it's sad to see red like this....maybe it would imporve as the later expansions ger released?
  5. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    It's important to note that a Threshheld Epicenter gets around Sacred Ground.
  6. Lotus Mox New Member

    um.. no it's still an effect controlled by an opponent, so a Threshold Epicenter doesn't get around Sacred Ground *sigh*.
  7. EricBess Active Member

    Actually, Istanbul is right. The lands are not destroyed, they are sacrificed. That is a very important distinction.
  8. terzarima New Member

    Are you sure of that Mr. Bess? Wildfire is an effect controlled by an opponent that calls for you to sacrifice your lands, and sacred ground works then.

    It doesn't matter that you sacrifice them, it matters that the opponent controlls the spell that makes you sacrifice them.

    So in my opinion it does not go through sacred ground. And that you get all your happy lands back.
  9. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    ?ARE YOU SURE?

    We had this discussion on Apprentice. Lvl3 judge said the effect is still controlled my the opponent so you still recur your land. Otherwise why would the Price Of Glory 'combo' work?
    :confused:
  10. Lotus Mox New Member

    It is an important distinction, but not for Sacred Ground.

    Sacred Ground
    Color=White Type=Enchantment Cost=1W SH(R)/7(R)
    Text(7th): Whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls puts a land into your graveyard from play, return that land to play.
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    So far I'm agreeing with everyone who says it works with Sacred Ground... :)
  12. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    D'oh. Crapola. I thought it said whenever a land was destroyed blah blah.

    I need a vacation.
  13. EricBess Active Member

    Hmm... Good point on Wildfire. Now I'm doubting myself here. I know there are cards that it makes a huge difference. Allow me to research it. For now, assume that I was wrong.
  14. terzarima New Member

    Why don't we get the new level 1 judge to give his verdict on this. Hey Zadok, what do you say?
  15. EricBess Active Member

    :D I wasn't going to point this out, but I am NOT the person that he corrected at the QT. I do know who it was and he told me later that he was really feeling off for a while with 2 rulings that he had to reverse in less than an hour. On the other hand, I think only 1 of the 6 rulings that were reversed on Zadok were my doing ;)

    Still, we could consider this a test. Zadok, please research the rules and post the answer with rules to support yourself ;)

    Go!

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