No Judgment talk?

S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, here's a prime example of what's not right here: where's the Judgment talk? About the spoiler and whatnot? We had one thread and it rather quickly faded out of sight, with most people saying it was generally on target yet with a few discrepancies. Yet no substantial thoughts about it!

Now, I didn't really get into the Torment talk (although you couldn't help but reading that black was "the color" to go), kind of because I haven't been in Magic for a while and also because I didn't want to get prejudiced for the Prerelease (although it helped anyway, since I used that white dude whose ability causes a swamp's controller to lose life) and I'm not saying that no talk is a bad thing necessarily 'cause maybe people ARE preparing for the Prerelease. But in general, does anyone think it odd that there isn't any Judgment talk? What's up?
 
R

rakso

Guest
Okay... Worldgorger Dragon is supposed to get errata since it's an infinite mana combo with Animate Dead.

Rune Horvik told me there are others like Wormfang Crab, which is an instant draw if you play it and your opponent is an oink.
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
One card that might not see as much tourney play as I'd like is Book Burning. I get threshold or you take six. You pick.


That's all. Don't have a lot to say. SO STOP FOLLOWING ME HOME!!!!!



Ransac, cpa trash man
 
D

DÛke

Guest
All those fragile Red cards are...not that great.

Sure, Book Burning looks very nice...but it's not. Trust me. Cards like that are very hard to play. Given *any* situation, you will either need to deal 6 damage to your opponent *or* get 6 cards into your graveyard. *Never* both. There would always be a choice that is superiour. Having said that, cards like Book Burning, Browbeat, and Breaking Point are not as great as they seem, because in any situation, your opponent gets to choose what takes place. You want a Wrath of God? Too bad, I'll take 6 damage...and oh, look...all those creatures I control (which are *still* in play) are about to have some nice, free lunch! Wow, you really want those 3 cards don't you? Not having them would completely end your game, well, I guess I'll take 5 damage! Ta da!

Surely, those cards are playable. Though they require decks built completely or somewhat around them as opposed to decks that include them. Breaking Point is nothing like Wrath of God, and Book Burning isn't a False Memories. They're playable, but...do you really wanna take such chances in T2 game? In a casual game, yeah...but...

Remember the rhystic cards? How popular were they?

That's what I thought...
 
J

Jigglypuff

Guest
I agree with DUke...

Those cards will probably not give you the results you want, unless your opponent is already so low on life that they can't afford to pay. And if that's the case, why not just hit 'em with a Sonic Seizure or a Fiery Temper anyway?

I think red mages may want to treat these red cards as extra burn spells that may give you another advantage instead.

LONG EDIT: Worldgorger Dragon is an infinite mana combo with Animate Dead. Here's how it works out:

1) The Dragon is brought into play by Animate Dead.
2) The Dragon's ability goes on the stack.
3) Assume no responses. The ability resolves and all of your permanents (including the Animate Dead are removed). You tap your lands for mana.
4) The Animate Dead's leaves-play ability goes on the stack. The Dragon is destroyed.
5) The Dragon's leaves-play ability goes on the stack. Assume no responses. All of your permanents return (untapped), including the Animate Dead. Assume no responses. Return to number 1.

You can't break this loop unless you can pick a creature other than the Dragon at step 1, which will make the game a draw. If you can pick another creature, though, you can win with a huge Fireball or whatever.

The Wormfang Crab is also a draw if there are no other permanents in play on your side (due to sac-lands or whatever).

(- Steve -)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...
JigglyPuff:

I think red mages may want to treat these red cards as extra burn spells that may give you another advantage instead.
Click to expand...
And that's still wrong. Ok, so you wanna have some "extra" burn spells...and then when you attempt at burning, you get to destroy all creatures instead...oooooohweeeeee.

Those cards need decks that almost utilize either effect 50/50. Or close to that.
 
D

Duel

Guest
I agree, but these ARE better than the rhystic cards. Basically, though, they're still not incredibly strong in constructed. But... Well, against many decks, red stalls out with the opponent at a low life total. In a situation like that, Browbeat, for instance, is good. The bottom line is, though, as come-from-behind cards (the most important kind) they suck...


How about Nantuko Monastery? I think that's a pretty incredible card..... It's uncounterable, it's pretty big, it even taps for mana....

I'd splash white OR green if I was playing the other, and play 4 of these in a control matchup...
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...

Oh, they're better than Rhystic cards. Or are they? Think about it.

Your situation of Browbeat is plausible. However, cards like the overly hyped Breaking Point and even Book Burning...there aren't such uses for those. These are *big* decisions, and you don't get to choose them: do you want to destroy all creatures or do you want to deal 6 damage? Whatever you want, your opponent knows it...and he or she has the will to deny it. It's kinda obvious if you're aiming at destroying all creatures or if you're trying to deal 6 damage...and it's not up to you at all...

These cards require you to, first, leave the opponent at a very low life count (and even then, I can see situations where Breaking Point would *suck*)...and by then, why not just win the game with better burning spells?

I have no doubt that those cards are...mediocre, at least, but...I wouldn't have them in any top lists. Except for Browbeat, maybe. And note that Browbeat's effect can almost help you 50/50. In a burn deck, you either take an assured 5 damage, or have me draw some damage to inflict upon you. The other cards don’t do that…
 
D

Duel

Guest
I agree. Book Burning and ESPECIALLY Breaking Point are over-hyped. Breaking Point because when you need the wrath effect most, the other player will have control. And, most likely, more than 6 life. Worse than that, if you're winning with breaking point, you don't WANT a wrath.
 
T

theorgg

Guest
True, the Book Burning isn't going to be that good, but If I can get twelve or fourteen in a draft(like I did with some certain Torment rats), well... I'd say it'd be pretty bad for my opponent.


They can only "counter" three, and if I've got them with thirty- two cards- # of turns, they've got 7-(X/6 # of turns) to win.


:[ )

Kinda like the fireball math, eh?
 
T

Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
Breaking Point is crap.
Browbeat is ok, primarily if you're only concerned with burn.
But as Book Burning is really meant to be a set-up card, it isn't quite so bad as Breaking Point.
Cards like this are utter crap when they're played reactively, but proactively - as in the case of Book Burning in a best case scenario - they're not that bad. I wouldn't build a deck around this one card, ...... well, maybe I would, I'm that kind of insane. :D:p:)

And you could always mill them with it for s***s and giggles. :)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...

Duel -- exactly.

TICM -- you either have the deck completely constructed upon Book Burning, or not have Book Burning at all.
 
G

Gerode

Guest
Answering the original question, I haven't looked through the spoiler yet. I like experiencing the physical cards, I notice a lot more that way.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Gerode: Me too. Even though I can print out card lists or use Apprentice or Magic Suitcase, for some reason, I get more motivated to build decks when the cards are actually in my hands.
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
Yeah, I know Book Burning is very situational and that my opponent gets to decide which happens. But, in the early game(like turn 2 or 3) neither effect is all that bad. Like I said, it's not going to get as much tourney play as I'd like, but, oh well.

I agree on Breaking Point. The card sucks. I'd never play it.

As for Browbeat, like Book Burning, not bad early game. 5 damage or 3 cards for 3 mana? So what if my opponent gets to choose. The only time that it sucks is, like you guys said, when you are pressed for cards and your opponent can take the damage. That's why you play this early game as well, assuming you have the card early game.


That my 7 1/2 cents of opinions that no one cares about.


Ransac, cpa trash man
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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Actually, Browbeat is better played late game, when it becomes a very hard decision for your opponent. Early game, depending on the situation, if I'm stable -- creature wise -- I'd take that 5 damage. If I let you take the cards, than I'm probably on the verge of losing the game anyway...and at that point, a nice burn spell would do better justice.

Book Burning -- It sucks. It's *only* great for Threshold...if you're talking early game. Just how many Threshold spells are you planning to play? It looks advantageous, but you're actually losing 7 cards, and 2 mana. Early game, you could be doing more. And late game, if your only threat is Book Burning...than I'm sorry.
 
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