News Flash! Bannings!

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Chaos Turtle, Mar 1, 2000.

  1. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Yup, go to www.mtgnews.com or the Sideboard Online to read the news...

    Dark Ritual and Mana Vault are BANNED in Extended!

    Well, that's that...CPA, what say you?
  2. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Guess that fixes the Necropotence problem, huh?
  3. theorgg Slob

    LOL! good statement, dune.

    "well, since Necro wasn't good enough, and we didn't want to look like fat fudge-eating bathtubs for re-printing it in fith, we vary well couldn't follow Picula's advice on..."
    -Anonomus man called "R&B" speaking for WOTC.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I would say that now that they HAVE been banned, we need to see results from tourneys on the performance of the Trix deck (since that is the one that really caused the evaluation) before seeing if fast mana really WAS the problem.
  5. I can tell you now what the next Extended environment will be like - Necro-Pebbles dominates!

    This deck is quite capable of second turn kills, by combining broken cards like Academy Rector, Enduring Renewal, and, or course, Necropotence.

    I guess the idiots at the DCI are just ass-boys for Necropotence, since they refuse to do anything to hurt Necro, and even bend and warp other cards like Anvil of Bogardan to make Necro better.
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  6. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Too bad this kills suicide black, too.... :(

    What was that quote? 'Ban things until Necro is good again, then ban Necro?' They got the first part right, but I think they mixed up 'Dark Ritual' and 'Necro.'

    Can someone explain to me why banning Illusions wasn't a viable option? It leaves Donate in contention (Thought Lash and Delusions), but weakens it _just_ enough. Black stays a working color. I've heard people say 'Ban Donate' and 'Ban Necro' instead, why not ban Illusions?

    "Black: The retarded step-brother of the other four colors."
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    If Illusions was being considered for banning, then logic would dictate that Donate is the real problem, since Illusions and all the other cards that we've been asking "WTF?" about when they got printed (Carnival of Souls, Thought Lash) suck just as bad as they did before, unless of course you can Donate them. Thus, Illusions is not and never was the problem.

    Donate and Necro should both have been seriously considered, and I believe they were, but really, Donate is not a broken card by any means. Necro is, by comparison.

    I think the choice to ban Ritual instead of Necro makes sense from a certain point of view. Banning Necro would obliterate several deck types. Banning Ritual just slows them down and gives decks that can beat Necro-Pebbles and Necro-Donate, etc (and those decks do exist) the time they need to compete with the otherwise blazing speed of the Ritual-Necro open.

    Being a dedicated Suicide Black player and hatred player this last season, the only thing I'll be losing, again, is the blazing speed. First turn Negator and/or 2nd-turn Hatred kill don't happen anymore, and I am glad, ironic as it may seem. Suicide black only loses about a turn, maybe two, in speed, and that hardly cripples it. This Arena season, the winner (with about 80% more points than the 2nd-place guy) played Speed Black the whole season. No one could stop him (none of us played Trix or Pebbles, btw) because his sideboard destroyed anything that could have competed otherwise. White (weenie and Replenish)players lost to first-turn Glooms/2nd-3rd turn double-Glooms, Green was hopeless anyway, but the ability to set up Deathgrip and Perish backup by turn 2 sealed that fate. There was nothing fast enough, and it was Dark Ritual that was the problem.

    I myself had to stop playing Hatred as much because nobody wanted to play me (except the burn-guy, for some reason) as no one was having much fun, after the 1st week, seeing my 2nd or 3rd turn Ritual/Ritual/pay 18 life kills, not even me.

    I see the various points of view, and I myself question the wisdom of leaving Necro alone, but banning Ritual was not wrong, in my opinion. Everyone's screaming "Black is Dead!" but it's not. And is no more 1st-turn Negator a bad thing? It's only in Extended anyhow; Swamp-Ritual-Negator open will be around in Standard until the Fall. Will Ritual be printed in Invasion? I don't know. I hope so, but if not, the black Shock will turn up sooner or later, and people will use it as if Ritual had never existed.

    Enough ranting, I'm going to bed... ;)
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yeah, don't you have to work on Monday, Chaos Turtle? :) I'm just five hours ahead of you here...
  9. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you Chaos Turtle for being the voice of reason here. I've thought Dark Ritual as being a problem for a long time and I think you've articulated every point as to why this is NOT a bad thing. Thank you very much.
  10. Wizard2000 New Member

    In my opinion the Negator never should have made it to print in its current form. Can't change that now so they ban Ritual. Oh well.

    I think we will see a lot less first turn kill type decks, but black will need a little speed boost to keep it competitive with Green. Maybe a black mana producing creature like the blood pet, but one that doesn't have to die to produce black. That will speed black up by 1 turn instead of 2 like with the Ritual. That or some type new ritual that gives BB for B cost or BBB for 1B.. or whatever. :)
  11. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    That's funny. I remember arguing when Destiny came out that Negator was a good card, but I kept getting flamed with silliness about Shock or chump-blocking it...
  12. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    I'm deeply ashamed: until today I'd never heard the term "slow black" used with a straight face. And Zadok, you've seen my deck. Sure, they amputated the legs (the deck doesn't run anymore) but there is nothing essentially wrong with the color. I think an errata of Illusions is in line, and I'd much rather ban necro than anything else. Oh, and I don't like negator.
  13. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Okay, I can't stand it anymore. In your typical Extended deck, you have at max, 4 Dark Rituals in a 60 card deck. That equals a 1 in 15 chance of actually drawing the card at first. While the chance decreases the more you draw, YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO HAVE A DARK RITUAL IN YOUR OPENING HAND EVERY GAME! So for all of you that complain, why is black aputated now? Just because the 1 in 3 or whatever ratio chance to get a terrific mana boost is no longer available? It still has the awesome creatures, it still has discard, it has some severly undercosted creatures. BLACK IS NOT DEAD FOR CHRIST'S SAKES! Understand that. It can compete against green with Perish and Cursed Totem still. It's faster than Blue and still has all the oppositional cards (Black Knight, Bad Moon, Unholy Strength) to white and it can Duress, Unmask, Ravenous Rats the hell out of Red.

    [Edited by Dune Echo (03-09-2000 at 10:27 AM).]
  14. I kind of agree. Dark Ritual is not an absolute requirement for every Black deck. In my Pestilence decks, I actually prefer to have a land that's there every turn rather than Dark Rituals that seem to pile up in my hand.

    Sure, they help to get Pestilence out quickly, but I have learned that it is usually better to dole out the damage in a more controlled manner than in a single, huge burst.

    Not only that, but I would prefer to play Pestilence on the 4-5th turn, after I see what kind of creature strategy my opponent is employing. If I drop it on the first or second turn, they might hold back key creatures until they can get rid of Pestilence, instead of overcomitting against what looks like a weakness in my defenses.

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  15. Killer Joe Active Member

    I'm not much into Black but I think that Dark Ritual was a bit out of place in Black. Isn't green supossed to be about fast mana? The name Dark Ritual is totally comfomant to the color but what it did without a drawback such as sacking a permanant or losing life was a bit of a head scratcher. Don't get me wrong, I like Dark Ritual as it is, in fact it really helped with my Necro-Weenie deck a little while ago (remember when Parallax Dementia was my Hero for a week?).
    Besides, aren't we here at CPA about casual play? I know I have had my share of Tourney comments but a reaction posted here other than a "Oh well, what can you do?" can be paradoxical here, ie -They banned my dark ritual!- who? your Mom banned you from ever playing it or did some folks over at Wiz Co. (people you don't know) tell you that you can't play it in one of their tourney's?
    ........whatever...........
    Play with Dark Ritual as much as you want, hell put 20 of them in your deck, are you going to let someone else tell you that you're not allowed to play a card and ruin your fun? NO! Go to a tourney that has different rules or Make-up your own tourney where you're the KING and all who attend are your servants..........................or suck it up and go to the next DCI or wanna-be DCI sanctioned tourney and play by their rules and quit crying.
    Again, I like Dark Ritual and no one is going to stop me from playing it in my own circle of friends.
  16. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Thank you, Yellowjacket and AMEN!
  17. Ophidian New Member

    Yellowjacket is absolutely right. All the people that are talking about ritual being banned are going overboard. It's only banned in extended, something that I personally would never participate in. Besides, how long do you think it will take WotC to see the next dominant deck and then neuter it? I say three months. On the other hand, I might have to dust off my flaming elf deck, it would at least be good for a laugh.
  18. Apollo Bird Boy

    Dune Echo:
    Actually, you have a 40% chance of drawing a Ritual in your opening hand with 4 in your deck. By the 3rd draw, you have an over 50% chance of having one. And if you mulligan, you can have an over 60% chance of getting an opening hand ritual. With odds like this, it does make a large impacct, and without it, black can't keep up with red, is still hosed by white's protection creatures, only stands a chance against green after sideboarding, and can't kill blue before it gains control. Now this might not matter to some casual players, but I enjoy playing online in various formats, and no one will play an illegal deck online.

    Apollo

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