N
Nightstalkers
Guest
Is it true that if you close out your MTGO account you get sent all your online cards as real cards?
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Notepad
Guest
Well, they finally posted some info about the set. Yay!:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/291
Very nice read, though there's a load of BS in there that is so blatant, I can't believe Mr. Bullhead is trying to pass it off as truth.
Does this warrant a Notepad Rant response article? Heh, maybe!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/291
Very nice read, though there's a load of BS in there that is so blatant, I can't believe Mr. Bullhead is trying to pass it off as truth.
Does this warrant a Notepad Rant response article? Heh, maybe!
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
They were spelunking in the abandonded caverns at WotC and they uncovered an outline for a set, perfectly preserved since it was lost WAY back in 1996: the long lost third set of the Ice Age block.
Of course, they needed to bring in experts on ancient cultures in order to translate the outline and interpret its meaning...
Seriously, I think Randy Buehler's article could have benefited from some more drama...
I mean, 1996. This predates the CPA. It even predates The Dojo! That's so delightfully archaic. What did they speak back then? Chaldean?
Of course, they needed to bring in experts on ancient cultures in order to translate the outline and interpret its meaning...
Seriously, I think Randy Buehler's article could have benefited from some more drama...
I mean, 1996. This predates the CPA. It even predates The Dojo! That's so delightfully archaic. What did they speak back then? Chaldean?
N
Nightstalkers
Guest
July release?
Wow... that's almost a year...
Wow... that's almost a year...
N
Notepad
Guest
Yeah his story is so unbelieveble. Especially with all the "hey I've had this old idea in my pocket that I've been trying to sneak in and after all these years FINALLy its here"
Seriously, if they spent effort to put a set together, they'd just put it out later. Doesn't have to be Ice Age block. They coulda thrown the mechanics into a new setting. They do this all the time, and write about it. Its how Ice Age got made, so its not like that far in the past they never made it. Ice Age was an idea they bounced around until they could finally force it out.
Its so bull. They just thought they'd play on our nostalgia, and maybe make some use of the old art file (which actually has been sitting around, but for legal contract reasons with the old artists, never used). He coulda just told the truth, but then again, that's not their style at mtg.com.
Seriously, if they spent effort to put a set together, they'd just put it out later. Doesn't have to be Ice Age block. They coulda thrown the mechanics into a new setting. They do this all the time, and write about it. Its how Ice Age got made, so its not like that far in the past they never made it. Ice Age was an idea they bounced around until they could finally force it out.
Its so bull. They just thought they'd play on our nostalgia, and maybe make some use of the old art file (which actually has been sitting around, but for legal contract reasons with the old artists, never used). He coulda just told the truth, but then again, that's not their style at mtg.com.
Killer Joe
New member
So there is no "Coldsnap" set. it's all just a hoax? That IS a load of BSNotepad said:
Okay, finally read the article.
I don't think it's quite as bad or melodramatic as you guys (Oversoul and Notepad) make it out to be. And I definitely don't see where it was an "old idea in a pocket trying to get out".
What I'm curious about is the politics that prevented the third set from coming out and putting Homelands in its place.
Anyway, it's believable and not quite the load of BS you're saying it is.
I don't think it's quite as bad or melodramatic as you guys (Oversoul and Notepad) make it out to be. And I definitely don't see where it was an "old idea in a pocket trying to get out".
What I'm curious about is the politics that prevented the third set from coming out and putting Homelands in its place.
And this is totally false. Ice Age was in development the same time as Alpha, as part of Richard's Garfield's original vision of Magic sets being replaced as new ones come out. Hence the original title "Magic: The Gathering" was going to change to "Magic: Ice Age" and "Magic: Mirage". But then the whole vision of sets replacing others changed and they kept the title.Notepad said:
Anyway, it's believable and not quite the load of BS you're saying it is.
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YoungBeard
Guest
Any speculation about what IA/AL cards will get reprinted?
Snow-covered lands, I bet, for one...
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Mikeymike
Guest
Hmm, this is very, very interesting. I wonder if it will possess the card offering imbalance that was present during IA/AL. I.e. the ridiculous bombs backed up by unplayable chaff. If this truly is a standalone (and not susceptible to standard day draft/sealed concerns) then it very well could be.
We could see a few new Type 1 staples out of this guy.
We could see a few new Type 1 staples out of this guy.
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Hetemti
Guest
New boarders.
They claim they will make precons, so there will be limited reprinting of IA and AL cards in those decks, but those reprints will not be T2 legal, while CS will be. And they'll probably be kinda lame, anyway, thanks to the reserve bull knocking out any cool rares they could dredge up.
The story I heard was that WizCo's marketing side wanted to transition between the last few years' expansions, which weren't really connected in any significant way, to the new block format. Thus, Homelands, which sucked. (I recall a recent article mentioning that Memory Lapse was copied from Mirage's WIP file because Homelands needed a crummy counterspell and Lapse was handy enough.)
People would probably buy digital Ice Age just to get at old-art pain lands, Necropotence, et cetera. But no one will play Ice block constructed with Homelands in the mix. Even if it's bull (which I figure is about a 30% it's totally, and 70% it's partially), Cold Snap released thus will sell for T2 and seed Ice block at the same time, assuming it has some decent power in it.
Coldsnap is neat in this block because it probably originally had the enemy-color painlands, and thus, follows off-color strategies, which would work well in Ravnica.
They are NOT simply printing the cards in the dusty folder. They claim they found the design notes, and will develop the set from it. I don't expect Snow-Covered, Banding, or anything too terribly broken to see print. Or a new round of off colored pain lands, for that matter. What we can expect is Ice-Age era color pie, with power level that is approximately that of Ravnica block. The weak stuff will probably be boosted, anything terribly broken will be toned down, and one card will be found to be a T1 consideration.
They claim they will make precons, so there will be limited reprinting of IA and AL cards in those decks, but those reprints will not be T2 legal, while CS will be. And they'll probably be kinda lame, anyway, thanks to the reserve bull knocking out any cool rares they could dredge up.
The story I heard was that WizCo's marketing side wanted to transition between the last few years' expansions, which weren't really connected in any significant way, to the new block format. Thus, Homelands, which sucked. (I recall a recent article mentioning that Memory Lapse was copied from Mirage's WIP file because Homelands needed a crummy counterspell and Lapse was handy enough.)
People would probably buy digital Ice Age just to get at old-art pain lands, Necropotence, et cetera. But no one will play Ice block constructed with Homelands in the mix. Even if it's bull (which I figure is about a 30% it's totally, and 70% it's partially), Cold Snap released thus will sell for T2 and seed Ice block at the same time, assuming it has some decent power in it.
Coldsnap is neat in this block because it probably originally had the enemy-color painlands, and thus, follows off-color strategies, which would work well in Ravnica.
They are NOT simply printing the cards in the dusty folder. They claim they found the design notes, and will develop the set from it. I don't expect Snow-Covered, Banding, or anything too terribly broken to see print. Or a new round of off colored pain lands, for that matter. What we can expect is Ice-Age era color pie, with power level that is approximately that of Ravnica block. The weak stuff will probably be boosted, anything terribly broken will be toned down, and one card will be found to be a T1 consideration.
N
Nightstalkers
Guest
Well, just think about the reminder text they'd have to put on Banding... It would be opening a can of worms for which everyone will become so terribly pissed at WotC for.Hetemti said:
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Notepad
Guest
Not totally false at all. Yeah, they wanted Ice Age to be the second iteration of the whole game. No secret there. What happened though was it kept getting pushed back. Arabian Nights somehow snuck in. Then Antiquities, and then the East Coasters even forced in their Legends ideas based of their ego fluffing D&D fetish fantasies. Then the Dark. Fallen Empires came in. Poor Ice Age and the whole "rotating story world" kept being pushed back until they could finally shoehorn the thing in. As you can see, they've had a history of being pretty stubborn until they get something published if it means enough to them.Spiderman said:
That's what I had meant about the idea in the pocket thing. Not that I was saying Coldsnap was that. Just, you read about it all the time. "Yeah I've been wanting to get Card X in a set since Urza's" says Markie Mark Rosewater, "But everyone kept cussing me out until I could finally sneak it into the Darksteel database while everyone was drunk one night and it kinda stuck this time! And now, my preview article for Card X!" You can't deny you see this stuff a lot, especially from Stain Daisyliquid herself, along with her repetetive references to being a secret backstage fangirl of Roseanne.
Seeing this history of hanging onto card ideas until they get published, its [(really really really)x5]+infinity hard to believe they'd just let a whole set get pushed aside for no good reason. Especially when they could just salvage the non-block pieces and put them in the next block or set or whatnot.
What I'm calling bull, straight from the Bullhead itself:
The story of Coldsnap just being buried and waiting around forever until some morbidly overweight geek went digging through a coworker's office trying to find backissues of Maxim of Stuff or something. This is much more likely a nice sales move by WizCo and they needed a good excuse to try it out. Long lost? Feh! Sure, everyone knows about the art files and a few card ideas (apoc horsemen) but just look at the storyline. Ice Age is what it is. Alliances is the end of that, with the world turning all Hurricane BettyWilmaPebbles style on them (look at the art, its there). So the ice age is ended. Wrapped up. Not really a chance to continue with coldsnappy stuff when Freyalise ended Urza's little environmental disaster.
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Hetemti
Guest
Banding (When this creature blocks an attacker, you assign attacker's combat damage to creatures that blocked it. When this creature attacks, you may band it with another creature. If you do, band becomes blocked as a unit, and you assign any blocker(s) combat damage.)
That's the best I can think of. Banding sucks because it stalls combat even more than usual.
Feryalise will have some explaining to do, I suppose, but all they have to do is make a really awesome Jaya Ballard legend card (T, Say something witty: Deal lethal damage to something and laugh.) and no one will really care. And that's a key point...even if the fable is fabricated, the news is, there will be a non-Ravinica block fourth set released in this year's cycle. It's like when WizCo made a big deal about how they heroically reprinted the off-color painlands in 9th, daring to reprint cards with too-specific names like references to "Llanowar" and "Shiv." The article was crap, they know full well they can print whatever they want, and that the off color duals make Ravinica work better so they printed them.
As for a whiole set getting pushed aside, they're claiming they found the foundation for a set, not a set itself. There may not've been any non-block pieces in place yet to harvest for a future set, so Dr. G filed it away.
That's the best I can think of. Banding sucks because it stalls combat even more than usual.
Feryalise will have some explaining to do, I suppose, but all they have to do is make a really awesome Jaya Ballard legend card (T, Say something witty: Deal lethal damage to something and laugh.) and no one will really care. And that's a key point...even if the fable is fabricated, the news is, there will be a non-Ravinica block fourth set released in this year's cycle. It's like when WizCo made a big deal about how they heroically reprinted the off-color painlands in 9th, daring to reprint cards with too-specific names like references to "Llanowar" and "Shiv." The article was crap, they know full well they can print whatever they want, and that the off color duals make Ravinica work better so they printed them.
As for a whiole set getting pushed aside, they're claiming they found the foundation for a set, not a set itself. There may not've been any non-block pieces in place yet to harvest for a future set, so Dr. G filed it away.
Notepad: It didn't keep getting "pushed back". All of those sets were expansions, filler to sate the masses appetite for Magic until the next full set was released (which was Ice Age). They expected the Alpha/Beta run to last until then but what happened? They sold out in a like a month, if not a couple of weeks. Now if you bought cards then, were you going to wait about a year and a half until the next set came out? Would you wait now that long? I don't think so...
I don't deny I read that stuff about Mark Rosewater (although not quite the spin you put on it). But it doesn't apply in this case so why even bring it up? Yeah, they have tons of card ideas. Yeah, they don't often fit in the current set for a variety of reasons (power, flavor, rules can't support it at the time, etc). So what? If you're in the business of thinking up cards, you're obviously not going to be thinking up card ideas just for one set and moving on to the next in nice little blocks. Your ideas are probably going to be scattered all over the place and not all of them are going to fit.
As for the "bull" story, I'm inclined to agree with Hetemti. This is back around 91-93 (in development). The Internet hasn't become really global, you have 286-386 computers with Win 3.x at best, you're a company just starting out... how organized are you going to be? He's not saying no one totally forgot about the set, they just forgot where they put the set... especially if the set wasn't even going to be released after all. They were moving on to Mirage and Tempest by then.
I don't deny I read that stuff about Mark Rosewater (although not quite the spin you put on it). But it doesn't apply in this case so why even bring it up? Yeah, they have tons of card ideas. Yeah, they don't often fit in the current set for a variety of reasons (power, flavor, rules can't support it at the time, etc). So what? If you're in the business of thinking up cards, you're obviously not going to be thinking up card ideas just for one set and moving on to the next in nice little blocks. Your ideas are probably going to be scattered all over the place and not all of them are going to fit.
As for the "bull" story, I'm inclined to agree with Hetemti. This is back around 91-93 (in development). The Internet hasn't become really global, you have 286-386 computers with Win 3.x at best, you're a company just starting out... how organized are you going to be? He's not saying no one totally forgot about the set, they just forgot where they put the set... especially if the set wasn't even going to be released after all. They were moving on to Mirage and Tempest by then.
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Notepad
Guest
Spiderman, why the samhill you always concerned with things like "facts" and "accurate journalistic integrity" and all that? Feh! When I was a reporter, we learned you could cook up stuff that sells papers better than slowing down and worrying about "facts." You can keep your facts, Mister Arachnid! I'll keep my New York Times.*
I really doubt the files were computerized to a large degree. Those artworks I keep referencing, for example, exist as actual art pieces. And I'm sure they did a good job of keeping stuff tracked down. The only thing that would make me believe they actually just stuffed something so deep it got lost would be that the little political play Bullhead mentions was really dirty and mean. I could buy that, I guess. But I'll need to see the bite mark scars on Richard Garfield before then!
And I still disagree on the history of Ice Age. The way I understood it, it kept getting pushed back after it was supposed to be the first expansion. So I'll go all press release style and say "No comment, pending investigation" and hope no reporter bothers to factcheck after the so-called research is supposed to be completed. If they do, I can always launch a smear campaign. Right, Spidey? I heard about that political donation you gave fifty years ago to Rosewaters Against Conservatism. Last thing you would want is everything thinking you're one'a them that filthy lib'rals!
*Insinuating I worked for them ever. I did! Really! Would I, or the Times, lie to you?!?
I really doubt the files were computerized to a large degree. Those artworks I keep referencing, for example, exist as actual art pieces. And I'm sure they did a good job of keeping stuff tracked down. The only thing that would make me believe they actually just stuffed something so deep it got lost would be that the little political play Bullhead mentions was really dirty and mean. I could buy that, I guess. But I'll need to see the bite mark scars on Richard Garfield before then!
And I still disagree on the history of Ice Age. The way I understood it, it kept getting pushed back after it was supposed to be the first expansion. So I'll go all press release style and say "No comment, pending investigation" and hope no reporter bothers to factcheck after the so-called research is supposed to be completed. If they do, I can always launch a smear campaign. Right, Spidey? I heard about that political donation you gave fifty years ago to Rosewaters Against Conservatism. Last thing you would want is everything thinking you're one'a them that filthy lib'rals!
*Insinuating I worked for them ever. I did! Really! Would I, or the Times, lie to you?!?
You're funny
You also make a bit more sense now.
But about the expansion getting lost: it could be the way you describe. It could also be like I said: after getting replaced with Homelands, the file was put somewhere and whoever put it there lost track of it or no longer works there and didn't tell anyone. Or other people didn't remember after all this time. Not so unbelievable.
About the history: if by "expansion" you mean "set", I'll agree with you there. But like I said, they didn't expect Magic to be such a success and weren't ready to put it out so they threw in the Arabian Nights-Fallen Empires as "bones and tidbits" to tide the players over until Ice Age could get released. In other words, those expansions were just filler until the real set could get released. But I don't believe it was "pushed back" in that Ice Age was supposed to be released whenever Arabian Nights got released (spring of '94?).
You also make a bit more sense now.
But about the expansion getting lost: it could be the way you describe. It could also be like I said: after getting replaced with Homelands, the file was put somewhere and whoever put it there lost track of it or no longer works there and didn't tell anyone. Or other people didn't remember after all this time. Not so unbelievable.
About the history: if by "expansion" you mean "set", I'll agree with you there. But like I said, they didn't expect Magic to be such a success and weren't ready to put it out so they threw in the Arabian Nights-Fallen Empires as "bones and tidbits" to tide the players over until Ice Age could get released. In other words, those expansions were just filler until the real set could get released. But I don't believe it was "pushed back" in that Ice Age was supposed to be released whenever Arabian Nights got released (spring of '94?).
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
It really sounds like a marketing ploy, but of course that is only speculation. I don't care much. If it is indeed a marketing ploy, it's a good one (it appeals to nostalgia, etc., and the story is, as Spidey pointed out, believable--even if some of us have our doubts). More important than what block this set will fit in with, is how useful the cards will be...Spiderman said:
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Nightstalkers
Guest
And... it comes at almost a year after the announcement...
By the time the set comes around, most of us will be so far gone over the hill to care about it anyways and the new generation will have to suffer from it...
By the time the set comes around, most of us will be so far gone over the hill to care about it anyways and the new generation will have to suffer from it...
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Notepad
Guest
Unlikely, NS. I think the nostalgia factor and all the card/power speculation will cause people to go rabid over this, just like how they went rabid over Ravnica when they found out it was merely gold-heavy.
This is a great sales move. There'll be a ton of people out to buy this stuff. However, I happen to have a gripe on the story they tell. Its like they learned how to write reports from the same newspaper I worked for!
This is a great sales move. There'll be a ton of people out to buy this stuff. However, I happen to have a gripe on the story they tell. Its like they learned how to write reports from the same newspaper I worked for!