New Core Set

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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
There is one very good reason for creating our own core set. Wizards of the Coast has never given us the Core Set we deserve, and its been a long time since we've even had anything close(4th Edition). 5th and 8th edition in particular have been quite disgusting, with 5th edition basically raping 4th edition of most anything worthwhile while replacing it with filler cards from Fallen Empires and Ice Age, while 8th Edition resembles Portal more than it resembles any other Core, Expansion or any set really.

Each expansion has produced beloved and staple cards to the game. Yet these cards have not been added to the Core Set. There are 350 cards in 8th Edition, how many of them get used in Tournament decks. Hell, how many of them get used in casual decks?? I play only casual games, and there are very few white bordered cards in these decks. Those that are there are often older cards.

The Core Set has become a joke, it has become Portal. They seem to be fixing this slightly with 9th Edition, but I don't expect a whole lot.


Some issues for the creation of a Core Set for the Casual Players Alliance:

1. I cannot be entrusted to do this myself. I am an Aggro/Speed player. Players who like to play control or combo style games will get hosed by any set I create.

2. How big for the set? Most sets have been running 350, 5th edition went up to 449. There have been a lot of expansions, trying to include all the staple cards of the game while maintaining variety is going to strain the card total.

3. Where to stop, I kind of like the idea of good old Chronicles, giving an expansion to the base set. The Core Set I'm imagining seems unlikely to be contained in one set.

4. Power cards. I like power cards, and am all for bringing back fun stuff like Hypnotic Specter, Lightning Bolt, Plowshares... ect. I would like to make this up for debate though.

5. What makes this a casual set? My proposal is to try to limit tempo as much as possible, instead of limiting the power cards. Leaving out not the key cards, but the support cards that make the deck run, and keep the mana curve low and help early control/disruption. For example, having Counterspell, but leaving out Force Spike, Daze, Force of Will, and possibly Mana Leak.

6. Painful Sacrifices. Some cards people like will have to be sacrificed to keep the tournamentiness of the set down. For example, I believe Armageddon would have to be left out of the set, despite it being one of my all time favorite cards. With Armageddon, the traditional White Weenie deck will most likely be fully included in the set.
 
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DÛke

Guest
4. Power cards. I like power cards, and am all for bringing back fun stuff like Hypnotic Specter, Lightning Bolt, Plowshares... ect. I would like to make this up for debate though.
6. Painful Sacrifices. Some cards people like will have to be sacrificed to keep the tournamentiness of the set down. For example, I believe Armageddon would have to be left out of the set, despite it being one of my all time favorite cards. With Armageddon, the traditional White Weenie deck will most likely be fully included in the set.
I sense a conflict of interest here. Hypnotic Specter? Lightning Bolt? Plowshares? Are you kidding me? But you want to stop at Armageddon?...
 
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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, and Hypnotic Specter go into nearly every Red, White, and Black deck I build. I play these cards every day. Also good/fun cards I use a lot: Serendib Efreet, Kird Ape, Counterspell, Balance, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Control Magic, ect.

Powerful cards alone do not break the game. My personal opinion on powerful cards is to put as many of them into my decks as possible. I find this as casual as any other philosophy.

Armageddon is a card Tournament decks revolve around. It is a key piece that has more influence on the game than the easily destroyed Specter. The rest of Armageddon decks are staple cards that need to be in the set far more than Armageddon. It isn't a question of power
 
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DÛke

Guest
Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, and Hypnotic Specter go into nearly every Red, White, and Black deck I build. I play these cards every day.
Which is a good reason not to include them in any core set, or any set in general. The fact that they are so easily played (hey, 90% of Red decks would gladly add 4x Lightning Bolt, almost no matter what the deck is or its construst might be)! What does that say? To me it says that the card is too good, seen from the fact that it is splashed to any deck that can produce the colored mana. Any card that neglects the deck's flavor and is played with "everyday" and in nearly every deck is not a good card in my eyes, not because it's weak, but because it's that easy to play. Maybe it's just me, but I like my decks to have some meaning and to choose the cards in it a little more carefully. In that regard, I view some of those cards you listed as being highly generic in their own right...
 
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DÛke

Guest
It isn't a question of power.
Oh. It's not? Well then, let's include Ancestral Recall, too; just as an example. Hey, it's powerful, but on its own it can't become the centerpiece of a deck, can it? And let's also speed up the game a little with some Moxes. Just make sure that the "power cards" (i.e., Armageddon), remain out.

Your reasoning, to me, is not satisfactory.
 
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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
Not a big fan of "power" cards eh? To each his own. Me, I play Lightning Bolts.
 
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DÛke

Guest
Oh, I'm a big fan. I just don't find your reasons satisfying enough, hence the logic behind WotC's decision. The best reason you have given so far is this: "to each his own." In other words: a set that's based on "to each his own" will fail to function since it essentially belongs to one person, or few, at best.

Me, I'll kick any butt playing Shocks.
 
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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
Ok, how's this:

The problem isn't broken cards, its broken decks.

I think we can keep the powerful(FUN) cards in the game, and I would like to do everything possible to keep as many as possible. The way to do this is to try to ward against broken decks, not broken cards.

Most of the bombs I've mentioned don't run decks by themselves. They can be abusive in a deck with a high powered mana curve and the fast control tournament decks are famous for. If you can break that curve, and make early control almost impossible, these cards are fairly harmless.

Those of us who play casual, like me, who don't build broken decks, have no problem using these cards in a social game. As I said, they aren't broken by themselves.
 
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DÛke

Guest
Ok.

Most of the bombs I've mentioned don't run decks by themselves.
Ok...bombs dont run by themselves at all. There is not a single card in Magic that singlehandedly can run a deck on its own. Nope.
If you can break that curve, and make early control almost impossible, these cards are fairly harmless.
So then cards like Time Walk and Ancestral Recall are fairly harmless at that point too, huh? Because we've fixed the curve, so gaining 3 cards for 1 mana at instant speed shouldn't be all that great. Think about it.
Those of us who play casual, like me, who don't build broken decks, have no problem using these cards in a social game.
Yes, but this is not the casual core set. Is it? If it is, then we need not be having the conversation. Because you're right in everything you want. But if you want to make an actual core set that is playable no matter who plays it, then there are a lot of issues.
As I said, they aren't broken by themselves.
And as I'll say again, there isn't a single card that's broken on its own.
 
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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
Originally posted by DÛke
So then cards like Time Walk and Ancestral Recall are fairly harmless at that point too, huh? Because we've fixed the curve, so gaining 3 cards for 1 mana at instant speed shouldn't be all that great.

...but this is not the casual core set. Is it? If it is, then we need not be having the conversation. Because you're right in everything you want.

A. Restritcted/Banned cards are as they are for a reason. With the exception of me mentioning Balance, a card I will admit a tendancy to throw into every white deck, none of the cards I've mentioned are Restricted/Banned. Kird Ape and Serendib were once, but it was pointless and the banning was reversed later. Certain cards are broken. Black Lotus and Ancestral Recall are more powerful than almost every other magic card printed by a HUGE margin. Hypnotic Specter, Lightning Bolt, and Swords are powerful, but the difference is nowhere near as large. I really don't even get your argument there.

B. I was, in fact, talking about making a new core set for the casual game. I don't work for Wizards of the Coast, and I don't trust them to ever put out a decent core set. I don't see the point of trying to think out a decent core set for real life. I'm sorry if this was unclear.
 
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DÛke

Guest
I was, in fact, talking about making a new core set for the casual game. I don't work for Wizards of the Coast, and I don't trust them to ever put out a decent core set. I don't see the point of trying to think out a decent core set for real life. I'm sorry if this was unclear.
Then there is no reason at all to have such a discussion. Just throw around your favorite power cards that aren't banned or restricted and call it a set. There you go.
 
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