New Banned/Restricted list: A Blessing from above?

[Waubers]

Have a look at the new Banned/Restricted List for type 1 + 1.5 its amazing it shuts down most kill on turn 2 decks. The only draw back is the unbanning of Underworld dreams whic for me personnaly sucks because a guy in my play group loves to kill people with it. Other than that its great. You can now go to a 1.5 tournament and win with a creature deck , or a counter blue deck and not worry about a first turn 20 point fireball or any other turbo fast artifact mana decks! This new list is just awsome! Another good part is that none of the old players can gripe because they only banned/restricted newwer cards! For the average player this makes type 1.5 a very playable environment.

Waubers

"I never thought that the DCI would do anything like this boy was I wrong"

 

[Ferret]

Well, all they had to do was unrestrict the Moxes in Type I and we'd be looking at Zvi's article coming to fruit...well, it's nice to know that WotC will happily listen to the number 5 DCI Player in the World (or whatever his rank is), but it really doesn't matter. People will still find ways to degenerate the environment to Combo A vs Combo B.

-ferret

"...well, since you're such a great player, we'll let you rewrite the rules for us..."

 

[Zadok001]

Ok, I give up. I've tried for years, since I started playing, to build an Underworld Dreams deck that works. It can't be done! I swear, either it can't be done, or I am horribly CURSED!

So, how IS it done?

Back on topic. Yes, combo decks will always exist, but the DCI has been kind enough to at least slow them down. All those combo decks that went off on turn 2 are gone! Joy! Now all the rush decks that kill turn 3 can have a chance! (And if you can't tell that's sarcasm, I will be forced to hunt you down and slay you).

Yes, the enviroment will always be fast, but that will be the lasting legacy (no pun intended) of Combo Winter. Once the pros got a taste of easy kills on turn 2, they will never go back. Someone will always be looking for the next Academy. Oh, well.

--Zadok001, aka Greater Good fanatic

 

[TomB]

Waubers,
I hate to disagree with you, but 1.5 will, in my opinion, be dominated by Necro decks featuring 4 Ivory Towers and 4 Underworld Dreams. Just imagine how tough that will be to play against.

And just as we knew when this Alliance was formed, the DCI and WotC do watch what the pros say, and knee-jerk react at the drop of a hat. I doubt they were listening to us when they decided to ignore the part about unrestricting the Moxes, et. al. I think the only reason they didn't was the reserved list.

You're probably right, Ferret and Zadok001, in that people will still find degenerative combos. It's what we, as Magic players, like to do. Discovering good combinations of cards, and finding ways to break them, is what great deckbuilders live for.

It's WotC R&D's job to stop these broken combos before they get released, something they seem to be really bad at. Cards like Academy, Jar, and Bargain should never have been released. There should be no reason for a wave of bannings like this, especially since we just had a large block of bannings not that long ago.

Normally, I'm violently opposed to bannings and restrictions and errata, and would always choose errata over restriction, and restriction over banning, but even I can see the logic (to a point) in the cards on the list this time around. I can point to several cards and ask "Was restricting this really neccessary?", but it would serve no real purpose, and I find that, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this might be the only way to save Type 1 as a viable format.

TomB
CPA Member
"Of course, 1.5 will be a mess..."

 

[Waubers]

I see your point maybe I was just so excited that the DCI actually payed attention to non type II play. I'm still evaluating the whole list sorry I jumped to conclusions.

The deck that I will now fear use's arcain denial which counters you spell and now it will hit my for 8 points of damage lots of howling mines, mana webs, stroke, black vise, and a whole mulittude of other spells. It was fast too but now lotus petal os banned and so is most of the other fast mana he used so I don't know how bad the deck will be.

I'll be sure to let everyone know my opinion on the new b/r list soon after I evaluate it more.

Waubers

 

[TomB]

Oh my. I forgot about the Howling Mine/Winter Orb decks. We won't need to worry about Black Vise, as it is restricted in Type 1 and banned in 1.5, but without ANY decent artifact mana in 1.5, and Underworld Dreams (God, is this card going to have a renaissance if anybody starts playing 1.5 again!) this deck will give the Necro decks a good run (Necro hates Orb).

Can anyone think of anything else that might work?

TomB
CPA Member
"I do not teach. I simply reveal."
-Daudi, Femeref tutor

 

[Ferret]

I'll assume you meant Type I when you were speaking of Underworld Dreams... since it's from Legends and If I'm not mistaken Legends has never been part of Type I.V...

...come to think of it, why are Shahrazad, Ivory Tower, Mirro Universe, Undweworld Dreams and Divine Intervention even mentionned in the Extended unbanned list? Must be a typo because none of those are from a set that can be played in Exteneded...

-ferret

"...unless, I missed something really important..."

 

[TomB]

Ferret,
Type 1.5 is just like Type 1, except they ban all the cards from Type 1 that are restricted or banned. In other words, it's Type 1 without the P9, or any of the other neat things restricted in Type 1, like Balance. Legends have always been welcome in 1.5, just not Legend cards on the restricted list.

TomB
CPA Member
"I do not teach. I simply reveal."
-Daudi, Femeref tutor

 

[Dune Echo]

Sorry to say this, but the Legends card set has never been allowed, not once, not ever, in Type 1.5. So, Ferret and I beg to ask, why are these unrestricted cards not in Extended in the first place now are unrestricted in it? Another sign that WotC isn't paying attention to its own product for mistakes yet again?

Of course, we are arguing a moot point as we play casual here. Or are we changing already? Let's ignore this okay guys? We are going to make decks from any cards we want that aren't turn one/all-rare kill decks. We are here to have fun. Not argue whether or not Lightning Bolt should be allowed in Extended or not. Are we apart of WotC and the DCI? No, we're playing a game that we love, we're not going to degenerate into squabbles over what's allowed or what's not. Yeah, the announcement shakes up a lot on the tourney scene, but we don't care. We'll play and enjoy. They don't have multiplayer on the tourneys do they? They don't have a banned and restricted list for multiplayer. Do we care? NO, because we will continue to play any cards we please and HAVE FUN!

 

[TomB]

Dune Echo, I played in a few 1.5 tourneys in the old days (when people were actually interested in playing 1.5) and I'll guarantee you that ALL the card sets were legal. Mana Drain was a prominent feature in my Howling/Orb/Vise deck, for example. If you don't believe me, check it out with WotC customer service at custserv@wizards.com

And as far as Ferret's question is concerned, I suggest you re-read the release from WotC. They start off by giving us the new banned list from Extended. Later they talk about the format changes, saying that as of 10/1 they're banning Revised, 4th, The Dark, and Fallen Empires From Extended. Then they give a brief explanation of the reasons for the bannings in Extended. At no time do they say they're unbanning ANYTHING in Extended.

I think you guys are confusing Extended with 1.5. I think that's only natural, considering that WotC once tried to "fix" 1.5 by changing it into a format with the characteristics we now associate with Extended, only to have public outcry from the masses (that's us) change their minds.

That's where the Extended format came from guys, when they re-instated 1.5 but really wanted to introduce the new format. In retrospect, WotC was right, because Extended has stayed a whole lot more popular than 1.5, evidenced by the fact that many of you don't even remember what's legal in it.

And as I explained to Ferret on another thread, some of us casual players DO go to tournaments. We just don't go to PTQ's, or Grand Prix. I like going to the store tourneys, because I like competition. I also like playing new people, and getting to know them. I only rarely win, but sometimes that's better because it allows me to circulate and find people to play with. I've actually made some friends that way. For me, it's a good time.

But it's obviously not for everyone. Certainly, we can play by any rules we want when we play with our friends. No one can even try to gainsay us that right.

But then why are we here? Why do we need a CPA to try and influence WotC? I thought that what we were trying to do here was express our thoughts on some of the messed up decisions WotC and the DCI has made in the past, and is sure to screw up in the future. I mean, why the hell would we bother voting on stuff if we're not trying to express a group opinion, and want to make it count with the powers that be?

Am I mistaken as to the purpose of this Alliance?

TomB
CPA Member
"...and I ALWAYS have fun when I play..."

 

[Ed Sullivan]

Extended is generally referred to as 1.x. As has been said, 1.5 is Type 1, but anything in T1 that is banned/restricted, is banned in 1.5.

And as for what TomB said about some members of the CPA play in tourneys, that is quite true. I play in store tourneys. Usually with about 16 people. Not a PTQ or Grand Prix. I like competition (hence why I've played sports for so long). I like to meet new people. I like to trade with a different card pool than my play group's.

Anyway, about the new list. Yes, we lose some cards. It's still not too much. No more Hymn, finally. And alot of the overpowered stuff from RV or 4th was banned anyway.
Personally, I like the new format. But I guess that's cuz I'm a white mage and I don't lose much (if anything!)

-mike

 

[theorgg]

Ok. the cat is out of the stomach.

some of us play in tournaments...
the thing is, we ENJOY it. not nessessarraly the competition and junk like that, but the fun of stumbling onto the metagame and entering a tournament with complete jank and kicking the first three decks we meet.
I got third with my "fo'give and fo'get" deck when I noticed FOUR people with 4th turn coated elf beatdown. attack for 248.
I gain 16 life.

the banned/restricted list is cool. the sharazad unbanning was stupid, because the major type I tourneys are in southern towns like Van's Cards and Comics in Missississippi. the people MAY have one of the power nine. the guy who everyone wants to beat, Sean Wainright, has three. one or two have two pieces of the 9. this is the only kind of place this sharazad unbanning will be felt. somone is going to build a lifegain deck with four "sherry"s and forse the tournaments to be twice as long.
no pro would play it if there was a good deck using it.

and divine intervention. what is to be done with that P.O.S?
nothing.

the others I can understand, except lotus pettle to some extent. one of my friends made a joke last year about the pettle getting restricted. we all laughed. how little did we know...

sorry for the rant. I guess i just got emotional at somthing this wild...

sic semper,

theorgg@hotmail.com

there was once a guy who showed me

 

[theorgg]

where did that last part come from?

I punched submit and there was an interesting lyric on the radio:
some hic saying
there was once a guy who showed me
a cat stuffed in a sack
he was beaten blue and black.
I said Mr., you are really sick
then I shot that sombeech
right in the back.

they said it was by slobberbone, or somthing to that extent. real hard but you could hear the southern roots.

a little warning: don't type after hitting submit if you have a slow computer.

 

[theorgg]

sorry for bening off topic. sleepyness willdo that to ya.

 

[Dune Echo]

TomB: I thought 1.5 meant Extended. It was half way between Type 1 and Type 2, so I thought it meant Extended. The whole damn naming system's screwed up too. But I was saying that Legends has never been in EXTENDED. Not Classic Restricted. Anyway, TomB is right. We need to get more together. GET THAT WEBSITE UP DAVID DOUST! PLEASE! BEFORE WE ALL START CANNIBALIZING EACH OTHER!

Sorry, I'm tired too.

 

[Dune Echo]

Hey, check out this guys. The DCI isn't rotating out four sets. They're rotating out five! Yes, they are! Check it out on E-League. They're rotating out Chronicles as it's considered an extension of 4th.

Question: Why wasn't this addressed in the original announcement. Again. It's WotC slip-shod way of doing things. Nothing gets checked or rechecked. Fast and loose business. They aren't an organization. They are a bunch of people out for a quick buck and they don't care what happens as long as the money keeps comin' in. If I'm gonna buy a product, I want the details paid attention to. I want cards to be worth buying (Donate) and not so overpowering that if I don't have four of them in my deck I can't compete properly. I guess I just want to be fascinated with Magic as I was once before. I really hope Mercadian Masques does this. It seems that the set will be interesting, thankfully. They really need someone to go over their stuff and check for mistakes. Cards and all. And quit being hypocritical, like with Waylay and the 6th edition rules.