My casual Millstone deck. Opinions, please?

Y

Yamo

Guest
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Ivory Tower
1 Jayemdae Tome
1 Sol Ring
1 Zuran Orb
4 Millstone
1 Balance
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Story Circle
2 Land Tax
2 Moat
2 Wrath of God
3 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Braingeyser
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Recall
2 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Drain
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Tundra
6 Island
6 Plains
 
D

Duel

Guest
I assume you mean casual as in "Less costly than a medium-sized car"

I'm sorry. I do not know how to edit this deck. True, you're not using the power 9. That's the best thing about it. You'd be better off playing extended.
 
Y

Yamo

Guest
It's casual because Millstone isn't exactly what I would call a force in T1 right now.

And I pretty much despise all formats besides T1, which I consider to be the one true form of Magic. I don't like having my card pool restricted, I guess.

As for the medium-sized car thing, I don't know what you're talking about. That Ancestral cost me exactly 1/15th of the cost of the $2.50 booster back it came in (about $0.17). That's a pretty cheap car. :)

One thing I don't understand:

"True, you're not using the power 9. That's the best thing about it."

The best thing? I'm confused. It seems to me like a Lotus and a Pearl/Sapphire would help this deck.
 
R

rakso

Guest
A few notes:

1) Control decks usually splash black for Yawgmoth's Will and tutors, but that hurts the mana base.

2) I'd discard Feldon's Cane and Ivory Tower, and use Ivory Mask if you're really scared of burn.

3) I'd use 4 Fact or Fiction over the Tome, a Millstone, Braingeyser and a Land Tax (heck, this isn't a deck that wants to stop playing land) or a Wrath.

4) I think 4 Millstone is too much. I might consider adding Humility and Kjeldoran Outpost for a bit of fun, and even add Trade Routes to protect it. Of course, there's Moat, but you can try Sacred Mesa. :)

5) I'd consider Thawing Glaciers and seriously add Wasteland.

6) Relearn is worth exploring, especially if you add Fact or Fiction (or Stroke of Genius). Merchant Scroll also becomes fun.

7) If this is casual, I'd add Jester's Cap for the random Gaea's Blessing.

Do you think, by the way, that Grindstone is better? Of course, Morphling is faster, but I don't think that's the point of your deck. :)
 
Y

Yamo

Guest
1) Control decks usually splash black for Yawgmoth's Will and tutors, but that hurts the mana base.

True and true. I omitted the former because of the latter.

2) I'd discard Feldon's Cane and Ivory Tower, and use Ivory Mask if you're really scared of burn.

Feldon's Cane is absolutely vital. Between the Land Tax, Tome, Library, Ancestral, and Braingeyser I can often be drawing cards just as fast (if not faster!) than I'm milling them. I'd have to worry about decking myself a significant amount of the time without it. As for the Tower it's not there just for burn, 30 (or more) extra life is just as great against just about any deck.

3) I'd use 4 Fact or Fiction over the Tome, a Millstone, Braingeyser and a Land Tax (heck, this isn't a deck that wants to stop playing land) or a Wrath.

Land Tax counters almost any land destruction strategy, combines fantastically with Ivory Tower, Library of Alexandria, and Zuran Orb, thins the deck, and is much more efficient than Fact or Fiction as far as the ratio of cards drawn versus mana paid (one mana paid once for up to three extra draws per upkeep).

Also, you must realize that Braingeyser not only draws me cards, but is just as often used as a win condition in this deck. Once the other player is within range due to milling, a Mana Drain-fed Geyser for 15-20 will end the game in a hurry.

4) I think 4 Millstone is too much. I might consider adding Humility and Kjeldoran Outpost for a bit of fun, and even add Trade Routes to protect it. Of course, there's Moat, but you can try Sacred Mesa.

I'm going for a "pure" Millstone deck. No creatures or damage sources. That's the theme. Four Stones generally insures I start milling early and can survive the loss of several over the coarse of the game.

5) I'd consider Thawing Glaciers and seriously add Wasteland.

Land Tax is much, much better than Glaciers in this deck. I'm way ahead of you on Wasteland, though. That would be sideboarded.

6) Relearn is worth exploring, especially if you add Fact or Fiction (or Stroke of Genius). Merchant Scroll also becomes fun.

True, but I don't think I need either one.

7) If this is casual, I'd add Jester's Cap for the random Gaea's Blessing.

Thought of that, too. The Cap is another obvious sideboard option.

"Do you think, by the way, that Grindstone is better?"

Nah. Only against mono-colored decks, which are increasingly rare these days. I've found that the higher activation cost usually doesn't quite warrant the unlikely event of nailing more than two cards at a time. I'd rather activate two Stones for only one more mana.

"It kinda looks like The Deck"

Hehe. Most old-school blue/white control decks do, with the Moat and Mana Drains and such. :) Those were just the best control cards of the time. Key differences are that it doesn't splash black, red, or green. Also, the discard element of the Mind Twist/Amnesia and Disrupting Scepters is left out in favor of more anti-creature stuff like Balance and Wrath. I'd still sideboard the Scepters, though.
 
R

rakso

Guest
Originally posted by Yamo
2) I'd discard Feldon's Cane and Ivory Tower, and use Ivory Mask if you're really scared of burn.

Feldon's Cane is absolutely vital. Between the Land Tax, Tome, Library, Ancestral, and Braingeyser I can often be drawing cards just as fast (if not faster!) than I'm milling them. I'd have to worry about decking myself a significant amount of the time without it. As for the Tower it's not there just for burn, 30 (or more) extra life is just as great against just about any deck.
If the Tower is actually working here, I'd say you're winning against your opponents anyway. I'm rarely able to make use of a tower without Necropotence or something like that.

Originally posted by Yamo
3) I'd use 4 Fact or Fiction over the Tome, a Millstone, Braingeyser and a Land Tax (heck, this isn't a deck that wants to stop playing land) or a Wrath.

Land Tax counters almost any land destruction strategy, combines fantastically with Ivory Tower, Library of Alexandria, and Zuran Orb, thins the deck, and is much more efficient than Fact or Fiction as far as the ratio of cards drawn versus mana paid (one mana paid once for up to three extra draws per upkeep).

Also, you must realize that Braingeyser not only draws me cards, but is just as often used as a win condition in this deck. Once the other player is within range due to milling, a Mana Drain-fed Geyser for 15-20 will end the game in a hurry.
Tax/Orb is fine, but I'm wary of it since you want to make those land drops. If this is working, then I wonder if your opponent is simply not playing around Land Tax.

Of course, against land d, you're absolutely right, though Trade Routes is another alternative.

Much more efficient than Fact or Fiction... let's just say you probably haven't tried the thing with restricted Type I cards.

If you're getting 15-20 cards from a Mana Drained Geyser... what the heck are you playing against?!?! Anyway, I'd pick Stroke over Geyser unless you're using both. Even then, Fact or Fiction is tough competition.

Originally posted by Yamo
4) I think 4 Millstone is too much. I might consider adding Humility and Kjeldoran Outpost for a bit of fun, and even add Trade Routes to protect it. Of course, there's Moat, but you can try Sacred Mesa.

I'm going for a "pure" Millstone deck. No creatures or damage sources. That's the theme. Four Stones generally insures I start milling early and can survive the loss of several over the coarse of the game.
Okay, but even then, three is probably fine, since you have some recursion as well.

Originally posted by Yamo
"It kinda looks like The Deck"

Hehe. Most old-school blue/white control decks do, with the Moat and Mana Drains and such. :) Those were just the best control cards of the time. Key differences are that it doesn't splash black, red, or green. Also, the discard element of the Mind Twist/Amnesia and Disrupting Scepters is left out in favor of more anti-creature stuff like Balance and Wrath. I'd still sideboard the Scepters, though.
All control decks especially U/W look and feel like "The Deck" since it was the original control deck.

By the way, one thing you should sideboard is Morphling, since it'll be a real surprise.
 
Y

Yamo

Guest
Thanks for the tips. I'm still gonna go with four Stones, it's working great for me so far. I'll make a point to test it with three at the next avilable opportunity, though, since you seem pretty confident about the whole thing. As for the Tower: Land Tax, Jayemdae, and the Library are my primary means of milking it. The Tower and Library in the opening hand is almost an auto-win for this deck due to the godlike drawing and life gain from the second turn on. I like your idea of sticking a fatty or two in the sideboard for the surprise factor, though. Morphling is just about perfect for that. :) How's this look for a sideboard:

1 Disenchant
1 Jester's Cap
1 Morphling
2 Force of Will
2 Dissipate
2 Disrupting Scepter
2 Wasteland
2 Sacred Ground (totally hoses the uncounterable Obliterate)
2 Misdirection (kickered Urza's Rages suck)
 
R

rakso

Guest
Yamo:

I'm not so sure about the sideboard, but offhand, I'dd say that it's geared completely towards control, and if decks you play against are all like that, you should just go mono blue! :) I thought you were more concerned with burn and the like, so should have Ivory Mask, Story Circle, Chill or Sanctimony in there. Misdirection is also useful against power, from Ancestral Recall to bloated Mind Twists.

Sacred Ground vs Obliterate is very original (not to mention amusing), but is Obliterate that big a concern?

About the Tower, my main concern wasn't milking it, incidentally, but that it doesn't affect the board, anyway, and you have Zuran Orb to fetch as a desparation card if it comes down to that. Life gain does not win games. :)
 
Y

Yamo

Guest
I decided you were on to something with the Millstones, so I cut one for a Jester's Cap. I've found the Cap quite useful. Stripping away the three most prominant threats in sight and memorizing the rest of my foe's deck in the process is a nice trick. :)

Sacred Ground: You're right, it's effect on Obliterate is amusing. Probably why I used in as an example. However, it's not really just an anti-Obliterate card (which would be a waste of space), but an answer to all land destruction, which is one of the most disruptive strategy against this deck. A single 2cc permanent that shuts down ALL land destruction by itself, I find that the Ground is highy underrated.

The sideboard is very control oriented mostly because the main deck is geared more toward creature decks with eight dedicated anti-creature cards. Another creatureless (or nearly so) deck creates many dead cards in my main deck. Hence the extra countermagic. Also, the extra Forces help specifically against combo decks and the Dissipates are useful for shutting down those insanely annoying recursive threats (Squee, Hammer, Pyre Zombie, Nether Spirit) that are quite popular these days.

"Life gain does not win games."

Very true. However, for a Millstone deck, *time* does. If I can stick around long enough, I WILL win. Almost invariably. Let's say I lay the Tower and sit on it for ten turns. Not an uncommon occurance. Then let's say my opponent drops a fatty (a 5/5, in this hypothetical example) that I don't have an answer for at the moment. Something else quite common these days. The 30 extra life the Tower brought in means that I can safely ignore that fatty for at least six turns as I wait to draw my answer. Bottom line: When the going gets tough, it buys me time. Especially during the critical first 5-7 turns (roughly), which, in my experience, are when control decks lose the majority of the time. It buys time in which to win.

Thanks again.
 
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