My brother and i need help with Red/Black LD

[PTQ]

My brother is taking (or wants to take) the following deck to States. He has been having a lot of trouble with it, so we would both like ideas for improvement. The first thing I'll tell you is that we do not have the time or money to track down any Blazing Spectres or Oblidirates or much else. So, other then that, what help can you give?

Thanks in advance.

Creatures (14)
4 Pyre Zombies
4 Caturan Enforcer
4 Chilling Aperitions
2 Vicious Kavu

Land Kill (14)
4 Stone Rain
4 Rain of Tears
4 Pillage
2 Tectonic Break

Removal (6)
2 Urza's Rage
2 Thunderclap
2 Snuff Out

Mana Sources (26)
2 Fire Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
2 Peat Bog (his idea, not mine)
4 Sulphorous Springs
7 Mountains
7 Swamps

 

[Dead]

The only thing i can think of adding is trench wurm so as you can pin down their non-basics and thus focus your once-only removal spells on coloured mana production.

Against white despoil might actually be worth using as it's life loss, not damage, so they can't prevent it.

 

[Gizmo]

I don`t think Pyrs are good enough to warrant running 4s. As for not getting Blazing Spectre I think pretty much every top team has already decided that the Abyssal is better anyway.

Trench Zombie iS CERTAINLY good enough to play a couple of - he`s a real powerhouse. I`d drop out some of your creatures to run more removal (esp Earthquake).

4 Seal of Fire
3 Earthquake
1 Urza`s Rage
2 Hammer Of Bogardan
2 Snuff Out
(12)

4 Rain Of Tears
4 Stone Rain
3 Pillage
3 Tectonic Break
(14)

4 Chimeric Idol
2 Pyre Zombie
2 Trench Wurm
2 Cateran Enforcer
(10)

4 Rishadan Port
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Urborg Volcano
5 Swamp
7 Mountain
(24)

 

[Zadok001]

Giz, I hate to disagree with you, as you always seem to prove me wrong, but IMHO, Pyre Zombie IS that good. This particular deck does not serve itself to run four, as it has so many other things to do on its turn, but on general principles, the Zombie is powerful enough to run four copies of. In the early game, it's a 2/1 attacker or blocker that can sac itself for 2 more damage to anything- That alone is fairly strong, for only 3 mana. Beyond that, it plays Hammer later in the game, and really works _better_ than Hammer most of the time. It blocks 'Derms, single-handedly beats Nether-Go, and laughs at cards like Wrath of God.

Very, very strong.

 

[Mars]

I can see running four as well, because of ONE word: Scorching Lava.

OK, that was two words. So sue me!

 

[Duel]

Duel: I scorching lava your Zombie with kicker, it's gone. Booya!

Zadok: I sac it in response. I return it to my hand. Hi.

Oh well.....

I don't like enforcer. I'd rather run the 5cc one that has fear. 1 more mana for +0/+1 and fear is worth it to me.

 

[Mars]

Help me out here, Duel, because I'm having a hard time understanding you. IF Zadok has BB1 available to him, WHY would I cast Scorching Lava? Maybe I would, though, because returning Pyre Zombie to hand can only occur during Zadok's upkeep, and because Scorching Lava is an Instant, I just may do that at the end of his turn, me with my Llanowar Brokens and Birds'o'Killmeonsight and all. The sac thing has to do with the RR1 DAMAGE thing , not the bounce thing. Amiright? Friggin confusing card, Pyre Zombie.

[Edited by Mars on 10-30-00 at 11:52 PM]

 

[Gizmo]

A note on Pyres - a 2/1 for 3cc is not a good card. It`s a card, but it`s not a 'woohoo - a 2/1' card.
They DO get removed from the game A LOT, you have to leave RR1 open to prevent them being Breathed or Lavaed, but more importantly nobody actually cares about them because they are only 2/1 and get trampled under foot really easily. The cost of recurring them is too prohibitive to make them effective in the early game, especially in a deck that is tapping out to discard or LD for the next few turns. He`s an okay late-game threat, but usually the decks he goes in get so much control late-game that you could happily run a bigger and better creature.

Aggro decks go straight past because they take too long to recur, and control decks simply gain too much card advantage to care that you are able to pick it back up and reuse it. So you`ve effectively drawn two cards, but the blue deck just AccKNowledged for 3, and is holding Fact Or Fiction.

Pyre Zombie is THE most overrated card in Invasion. I`d give him ***. not bad, but not all that people say he is.

 

[Duel]

Mars: Because I am a BAD player.

Gizmo: Pyre zombies are good. They are, in my opinion, on the squee level. Not good enough to become masticorean or mophlingalicious, but in this environment, as slow as it is, they are definately good cards.

 

[Mars]

Duel: You are NOT a bad player. OK, maybe you are. But Bad compared to what? Perfection? Many of us are too hard on ourselves and bad compared to that.

I'm not sure if Gizmo is right about Pyre Zombie, but Giz (may I call you "Giz", Giz?) is right about 90% of the time. I think that both Pyre AND/OR Hanna MIGHT be good in the proper deck, but that deck may be hard to find. But what do I know? I'm still trying to break Overburden.

My basic problem with any R/B deck is that enchantments, or "bananas" as I like to call them, will hurt, as neither color can handle them since Nevinrrral's Disk went away. So black has to resort to discard and....oh wait, there's Void.

What do you think about Void, Giz?

 

[Mars]

Bummer...just checked out the text on Void and the overpriced Powder Keg only affects Artifacts and Creatures. You see Duel? Never be afraid to be wrong, since we all make mistakes.

 

[Ransac]

LADIES, LADIES, LADIES!!!!!! The discussion is not if pyre zombie is a good card! It's if we can improve on this player's deck. I run a similar to that, except instead of cateran enforcers, I run cinder shade(I love this card). I also run for Urborg Volcanoes because you have to love these new dual lands. I also run a couple of Cauldron Dances in there because they work great if a blazing specter is in your graveyard and you have a pyre zombie in your hand. I have 4 Shivan Zombies main decked because they are a cheap blocker and in this environment the only one color deck that might survive is rebel, so I keep those guys around. That's my 1 cent's worth of my 2 cents.


Ransac, cheap bastard

 

[Purple_jester]

Your bro's deck seems to be an aggressive deck supported by LD, as opposed to a pure LD deck. Some comments:

You have 4 Dark Rituals. What are the Peat Bogs for? I think that if you're going to run lands that come into play tapped, you're better off running Urborg Volcanoes.

You need more removal. With only 14 sources of LD, there's a good chance that your opponent will be able to come up with even 4cc creatures. Earthquake or even Breath of Darigaaz is recommended. Further, with nasties like Chilling Apparition, Nether Spirit and River Boa out there, you wouldn't be amiss in playing Scorching Lava.

What about Despoil? That's a good LD card. And it can be cast turn 2 via Dark Rit. A Trench Wurm or 2?

Chimeric Idol would be good in this deck. Especially if you do end up playing with Earthquake or Breath. And it avoids those irritating Wraths. Perhaps you could even include Orgg or Balduvian Horde?

 

[sole specter]

all have good poits but i on gizmo's side on the zombi it is not bad but not the best

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

i still would reccomend putting blazing specters in they pose such a threat to your opponent, i have three running in my black green red, if you don't want to go after those try to find some hypnotic specters anything that causes your opponent to think of what is worth playing and start doubting their own strategy is worth it,they are easy to get rid of so i say some cauldron dance too as for mana since you have the tectonic breaks you might want to put in two lake of the dead as to make use of the tapped swamps

[Edited by Azreal the Soulmaster on 11-07-00 at 03:24 PM]

 

[Thrash Golem]

sucks. 3 for a 2/1, and if you relatively skip your next turn, you shock them. Then, you can skip your next turn to bring it back into your hand, and thats all if you get the right mana. I tried it in my Dark Ponza deck and it died fast. This is the decklist I use:


Black:
2x Vendetta
2x Snuff Out
4x Dark Ritual
1x Do or Die (i need to replace this)
2x Unmask
2x Soul Burn
4x Rain of Tears
3x Despoil

Red:
4x Pillage
3x Stone Rain
3x Shock
3x Seal of Fire
2x Veteran Brawlers
2x Skizzik
2x Tectonic Break

Land:
1x Dust Bowl
2x Peat Bog
2x Sandstone Needle
8x Mountain
8x Swamp

I would probably use Voids and Ports if i could get my hands on them. No luck.

 

[Azreal the Soulmaster]

hey thrash golem Xarvox has some voids i don't know if he'll trade them, but you can always try