MP - Is a Donate Deck Possible?

  • Thread starter James, Wizard Naive
  • Start date
J

James, Wizard Naive

Guest
I would appreciate the opinions of others regarding the possibility of constructing a multiplayer Illusions of Grandeur/Donate deck. Yes, you read properly: multiplayer.

Let us consider a five-person free-for-all game. We therefore need a way to cast the combo at least four times, more if someone is playing lifegain. Meanwhile, some defence would be nice because we are going to attract some attention after the first player is blown away.

Now I don't want to seem lazy for not posting a decklist for critique; I just think it is too early and it will just distract from my intentions. I am hoping to receive ideas of a more general nature and perhaps individual card recommendations. The decklist will take care of itself later depending on the ideas received. Anyway, I appeal to readers to offer their nascent ideas on building such a deck. Can it be done? How can we recycle the combo cards? Considering it will take awhile to target all four opponents, what would our defence be? What are the other considerations? Assume a Type I card pool sans power nine (although I do have Mox Sapphire and Ancestral Recall to add to any decklist). I look forward to any comments.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
I don't think it'd work.

You'd have to devote so many cards to the combo (which don't have great symbiosis with other combos) that I'm not seeing a win in 5 player.

At least a third of your spells would be devoted to the combo. What colors were you planning on using? and what other donations would give you a win condition? Transcendence comes to mind, How is Illusions worded? do you lose the life when it leaves play, or goes to the graveyard?
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Well, I suppose that helps a little, you can bounce it to force life loss. . .

So Upheaval would be cool. As would boomerang. . .

I was thinking you'd need 4 because they had to go to the GY. . . Of course that was dumb, you'd simply bounce it to your hand after gaining 20. . . Doh.
 
J

James, Wizard Naive

Guest
Big Blue asks: "What other colors [besides blue] will you be using?" Answer: "Any colors that work; I am prepared to start from scratch."

My own ideas, which I didn't want to corrupt this thread with yet, include Capsize and/or Boomerang which can be used both as spot defensive measures and to bring back the Illusions of Grandeur to my hand for use again. A greater concern is the reuse of Donate - a Sorcery which ends up in my graveyard.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
If you went with Green you could regrow it. . . Anarchist would get it back as well. . . Black would give you Tutor + Bargaining + Necro.

I figure Boomerang is a must.

Oh, and my assessment of the possibility was raised when I realized (was reminded by spiderman) that IoG only had to leave play to work.

So, you'll be gaining life each casting and hopefully your opponent will be losing it (and the game).

Is there any other kind of donate for enchantments? I know you can switch creatures, perhaps you can make it a creature to give it away. (Isn't there some white ench which makes other ench creatures. . .) There's a funny Blue rare which you could then swap creatures with. . . But now it's a 3 card combo. (4 with bounce).
 
T

theorgg

Guest
Well, granted, this deck isn't very good... and is kinda out of date...

But this is the deck I built as soon as Desteny came out... And I had all the cards(minus ONE Illusions) at the end of the Pre Relese. However, I do not claim "trix," as I did not think to put it into a Necropotence Engine. :D

//NAME: Hava cigar
// by Jensen Bohren
// donates
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Donate
4 Relearn
// cigars
4 Illusions of Grandeur
4 Thought Lash
2 Vibrating Sphere
2 Carnival of Souls
// support
3 Forbid
3 Shrieking Drake
4 Propaganda
2 Reins of Power
2 Counterspell
4 Arcane Denial
// land.
17 Island
4 Imbarrassingly bad U/B land

This deck's pretty fun, really. Shrieking Drake/Carnival of Souls is kinda fun... though the drake might need to be toned down to two or one. Vibrating Sphere is quite fun, both to take your opponent's army with and watch most of the weak creatures die off in a fell swoop, and also to donate to the guy with the Verdant Force... and a ton of elves.

Well, it's not your turn... goodbye to the Saps!

If Portal cards are allowed in your group, there is a portal card that does the same thing as Relearn. Y'might want to dig it up.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Think "Recall".
On defense, think "Evacuation". (add in Warped Devotion for further sickness.)
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
I think it can work, though it won't be easy.

First, you need something besides Illusions that is 'donatable'. Also, you'll need to set up a defensive barrier so you can't just be swarmed once your opponents see what you are up to. Propaganda is a good way of keeping people away from you, and Embargo combos nicely with both ideas (as well as not hurting an instant/sorcery based deck). theorgg's use of Vibrating Sphere and Thoughtlash are good alternatives well.

Then you'll need bounce to get the Illusions back to your hand. Boomerang is good, but Capsize is better. For the extra 1 its worth running all Capsize and no Boomerangs, especially if you run Sapphire Medallions (which you probably should).

Then you'll need a way to get Donate back to your hand. Relearn is good, as it can also get used Capsizes, counters, and card-drawing spells as well as Donate. Recall is good as well.

Starting with this...
4 Donate
4 Illusions
3 Embargo (which is good after an Illusions on yourself if you need to hold onto it, could be 2)

4 Propaganda
4 Relearn
4 Capsize

4 Sapphire Medallions
23 mana sources

This leaves you 10 spots for search, counter, and/or Disk.
 
I

immortal grave walker

Guest
How about making it blue and black.

Donate A Nefarious Lich.
Only problem might be protecting it before you could donate it.After you donate, you could bounce it back to your hand and game over for someone.
Just a thought.
 
T

train

Guest
If you build it, They will Perish!!!

I think it would work,

As Yoda would say: Bounce and Counter I see, Recycle Graveyard, you must. :p
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
As weird as it may seem...

Energy Field?

Sure, you can't really cast anything after it's in play without nuking it (except a bought-back Capsize or Propaganda), but it effectively renders you immune to harm...and let's face it, this deck will make you Target Boy.
 
J

James, Wizard Naive

Guest
If Illusions of Grandeur can be protected and reliablely bounced back to my hand after it is donated, then I do not think I need any alternative targets (called "cigars" by theorgg) for Donate. I think I will take Istambul's advice and include a Recall in addition to, or in place of Relearn, and also seriously consider the power of Evacuation; Energy Field is intriguing but I am unconvinced for this deck. I am with Mikeymike when he recommends Propaganda, Capsize, Sapphire Medallions, and identifies the biggest problem as being able to establish a "defensive barrier". The twenty life kick from a successful use of the combo will help to attenuate the effects of the ensuing attacks.

Tentative Deck List: Chronic Illusions

Core cards (20):
4 Illusions of Grandeur
4 Donate
3 Relearn
1 Recall
4 Capsize
4 Arcane Denial

Defensive cards (9):
4 Propaganda
3 Maze of Ith
2 Evacuation

Utility Cards (3):
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Spiral

Mana Acceleration (5):
1 Sol Ring
4 Sapphire Medallion

Mana Sources (23):
4 Thawing Glaciers
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tolarian Academy (re: my question on Single Card Strategies board)
17 Island

Some notes: I use Arcane Denial over Counterspell in large multiplayer games because of card advantage/disadvantage considerations (ask me if you want a justification) and the way it interacts with Sapphire Medallion. Mox Sapphire and Ancestral Recall are the only fancy cards I have. Card drawing is a theme that is lacking - but what to replace? Does this deck have enough defense; can it survive?

Please respond with any thoughtful criticisms however sweeping or specific and suggest changes of paradigm or minutia.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
One Fact or Fiction wouldn't seem to hurt. Do you have enough Mana? I don't think 17 mana producing lands will cut it, even with your one Mox. Glaciers come in tapped, mazes offer zero mana...

I can see your point with the A.D. but only 4 C.S.

This deck would lose badly in my group. It is a one trick pony. Don't forget, if someone disenchants or bounces the Illusions as it comes into play, you take 20 right then and there.

Life gain goes on stack, disenchant/bounce, life loss goes on stack. You'll need that donate or a A.D. to avoid it. Now if your group doesn't use many enchantments or artifacts, Disenchant is unlikely, but in our group they are becoming more and more common.

Apologies if this seems a downer.
 
J

James, Wizard Naive

Guest
Apologies not accepted Big Blue. Analysis like yours is exactly what I am seeking.

A Fact or Fiction was one of the last cards left out of the deck. I will squeeze it in once I establish what card can be removed. When I tested the deck, it did not seem to need more mana. Glaciers do not produce mana themselves, but they fetch mana producing land available two rounds later. Tolarian Academy will be replaced by an Island and the Mox is mana producing, so that is 19 mana producers plus four Glaciers: no problem.

"It is a one trick pony." True, but could this not also be said of the version that blazed through Extended tournaments? The one trick, or should I say the one Trix, is stupendous. Is your criticsm final on the whole concept, or just specific to my poorly designed deck?

I would like to mention that once the mana threshold for executing the combo is reached, the second and third use of the combo comes quickly.

Thanks for the warning about the conditions for "leave play" effects occuring before "comes into play" effects. I will try to have a counter handy.

P.S. - I always loved the name: Missoula Montana.
 
J

Jigglypuff

Guest
The difference between the MP version and the Extended tourney version is that the tourney version could afford to be a one-trick pony, since it only had to defeat one player. Once it did it's one trick, the game was usually over and the Trix player had won.

In MP, you have to go through more than one player and you have to use your one-trick multiple times. With more players, it's more likely that someone will have the Disenchant or the life-gain or some other card that hurts you. MP decks that only have one route to victory don't win that often for that reason.

(- Steve -)
 
J

James, Wizard Naive

Guest
Sound opinions Jigglypuff, but I am hoping that given the 20 life boost and the expected death of at least one opponent, I will be poised to survive and repeat the process. I would think that the life totals at the end of a duel where the Trix deck won would be something like 28 to zero. Thus, the Trix player would be in a good position to continue fighting if the game did not end.

Perhaps I will try to add more counters as BigBlue mentioned for protection from a Disenchant, but I wonder (and I have to wonder since I have never played at a tournament) if Disenchant really grounded the Trix deck in Extended tournaments. I would really appreciate to hear advice from a former Trix player on how to play against white where Disenchants are presumed. Of course now GREEN has a disenchant too, and I am sure that all the green mages will be swaggering around, sporting this new common card like a gun on their hip . . . .

Anyway, once I play this deck a number of times I will report back to this thread with all the important findings and some of the gory details. Unfortunately, this may not be right away since I not able to play very often.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
I'll be very interested to hear how it does.

Again, as JP pointed out as well, Trix only had to worry about one player disruption. MP is a different beast entirely, and often another player will disrupt you, even if it doesn't affect them (at least in my group...)

And Green's always had a disenchant or two (the charms, tranquil grove, and that elf come to mind). But also, bounce will be a factor as well, if someone bounces it to your hand at the critical moment (after it comes into play, after you attempt to donate it...) you'll suffer the same consequences.

"The Concept" is weak to moderate in my opinion, and your deck isn't the best fit for MP. Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, and it could work extremely well in your play group. I just know that it would be murdered in mine.

But at least you are trying, and that is what counts. I built a Pros Bloom for MP in the past, and it worked a couple times, but wasn't very successful unless it hit early. Once a trick deck is discovered it doesn't last long if it's effective.
 
Top