Manupilative...

[DÛke]

...

I have a small, somewhat personal problem.

I'm 19. My brother is 17. We can never get a long. My sister is 13 -- and she is the center of everything in the world, it seems.

As the oldest brother, and being generally a straightforward, honest person, I tell my little sister how to behave properly, and correct her when she's wrong. Example, she's in this phase where she loves to wear a lot of jewelry, and put some good amount of make up on. Sometimes it looks ok; sometimes it looks embarrassing. Since I'm her "serious" brother, she takes everything I say seriously. Today, I told her she looks "pathetic" with 7 rings, 2 necklaces, darker-than-usual eye shadow, and some bracelets. She cried. And she cried. And she cried.

That's not the problem.

Being the extra manipulative person, my brother takes this opportunity to sweet-talk my sister into stop crying, and while at it, telling her how she should *never* listen to me because my opinion is just...a nothing.

Imagine many, many episodes like that...where I say something hurtful albeit truthful, and my brother hovers to my sisters side, calms her down (which is ok!) but...also feeds plenty of crap to her. Being the easy-to-control person she is, she believes much of what he says. After countless cases like that, we begin to experience...problems.

My biggest flaw is that the connection between me and my sister is a very honest one. She is honest and open with me, and like wise. I can never have the power to calm her down if *I* myself don't think it is right. I can never tell her something when I don't really mean it. It's different with my brother. He can say whatever he wants, and do whatever he wants...therefore having an advantage over me in that he could say things that I can't.

I thought about the issue for a long time. My friends tell me that I should forget about how my brother acts, because in the end, we'd all "get a long." Maybe.

However, I want a solution to stop his (in)direct manipulation. Simply sitting down and talking out is *not* a solution. He's the most arrogant person that thinks he is perfect and everyone else has a problem. His choice of vocabulary is less than amusing, and his attitude toward a serious discussion is more than embarrassing. He lives by the rule "you don't like me, I don't like you. You don't agree with me, I will disagree with you." It is very childish.

So...I don't know how many of you have brothers and/or sisters, and how many of you actually experience this thing...but how do I go about being honest with my sister, yet still *avoid* opening a chance where my brother can come in and feed her the countless crap that he does?

One day I was talking to her, and I really noticed the misconception in her undertone when she’s talking to me or, in many cases, about me. She knows things about me that do not have actual existence -- probably a result of listening to the indirect manipulation of my brother.

It really is making me sick, and I can't bear his arrogant attitude, and just plain evil scheming nature...

He says he doesn't manupilate her at all, and that I'm being paranoid, but the truth is...when my sister slowly starts disliking me, and when she spreads many misconceptions about me, it really goes beyond just simple paranoia. In addition, in many instances where he wasn't around, we usually get over the issue in less than an hour. Everything goes back to normal after that. When he *is* around, my sister can go for a couple of days still upset towards me, and without talking to me...

What do I do when simply talking isn't the problem?

"I honestly thought of just beating the living s**t outta him..."

 

[Svenmonkey]

It seems as if (since everything is presented from your angry point of view, I'd say you're at least part of the problem...

But, overall, I'm just glad I'm not in your family.

 

[DÛke]

...who said I'm angery? This "problem" has been alive for sometime now. Nothing in particular happened for me to be angery, it's just that I thought it's good place to see if anyone has similar experiences and/or have an some sorta advice.

And how would I be part of the problem?

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

To quote some French philosopher whose name I forget, "Hell is other people".

 

[Jigglypuff]

how do I go about being honest with my sister, yet still *avoid* opening a chance where my brother can come in and feed her the countless crap that he does?

Simple. You can't. It sounds to me like your brother is hovering around you and your sister waiting for an opportunity to strike and when you say "something hurtful albeit truthful", it's the perfect opportunity he's been waiting for. I don't think you'll all "get along", like your friends think, or you wouldn't have come asking for advice.

Since your brother won't sit down and have a reasonable discussion with you, your sister doesn't sound like she's going to be much help, and I don't think you're the type of person to hire someone to threaten your brother into submission (but if you are, then PM me ), I honestly don't think you have any other solution than to change your relationship with your sister.

Just my 2 cents...
(- Steve -)

 

[DÛke]

...<laughs>Man, if I wanted to physically harm my brother, I would have done it myself and I would have done it a long time ago. I'm in a great physical shape; he wont be much of a challenge.

I really did think of changing my relationship with my sister, and that could mean two things: becoming evil and deceitful like my brother, or...just not being so open or honest with her as to not open up any opportunities for my brother to do his dirty job. That, in turn, meaning chaning myself from being a competely straightforward person, into someone who is...not me.

It's a bad situation.

Mr_Pestilence's "Hell is other people," really does apply here. I took a long drive today to nowhere just thinkin' why I even care much...I didn't get to a solid answer, so I care less now. I feel great.

 

[Apollo]

Well, I don't really have a straightforward solution for you. I only have one brother, we're usually mad at each other, and there is very little manipulation involved. Just a lot of yelling.

But here's a (sorta obvious) start for you: be honest with your sister, but not harsh. Instead of telling her she looks "pathetic," tell her that it looks like she overdid it a bit, and perhaps she should only wear a couple bracelets and a little less makeup, because she doesn't need all that stuff to look good.

Assuming she isn't ugly, you're still being honest, and putting it this way won't make her cry. And if she isn't hysterical, your brother doesn't have a chance to move in and turn her against you.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

I won't advise you on how to get along with your brother, but I think this might help with your sister.

You said that she takes things you say seriously. Does this mean that she respects your opinions, and the guidance you give her? If so, the I think that you probably really hurt her feelings when you told her she looked "pathetic." Hurting someone's feelings is not a very effective method of getting a point across.

I appreciate your desire to be honest with her, but there is a difference between being "honest" and being "brutally honest."

My suggestion is that you find nicer ways to speak to your sister. Surely it is possible to explain to her that wearing too much makeup and jewelry makes her look worse, not better, without being mean.

 

[DÛke]

...<laughs>So being mean is how it's "partly" my fault. Just for the case, we're all mean to each other in a "good way." I mean, it's being mean with humour, not just plain "mean."

Anyway, I just decided to ignore my brother, and be less honest with my sister. Her problem is, she keeps talking about how she loves honest people, and how she respects them. When she experiences honesty, she dislikes it though...

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Mr_Pestilence: That would be Jean-Paul Sârtre, an existentialist who would probably recommend yelling at both of them, so I'm not sure his advice is entirely appropriate.

DÛke: While in other circumstances being honest, even brutally so, might be a good idea, it is probably better that you are being a little less honest and a little more comforting to your sister now that your brother is doing what he is doing. Complete honesty and openness of feeling are much harder to maintain when someone else is specifically trying to subvert them. As a result, your sister is the worse off because of this whole relationship. So, while constructive -- or at least constructive sounding -- criticism is fine in small doses, try not to fault her about things that are or seem to be important to her.

Obviously it seems that your brother is craving attention. But perhaps if you gave him a different kind of attention he would stop manipulating you. I don't know quite how this attention would be different or whether you could even give it to him; perhaps a look at your family's history could help. Hopefully it's something related to your family's relationship that you could fix.

(This comes from someone who is completely mystified by his own sister, so think of it what you will.)

 

[DÛke]

...<laughs> That's very good TICM.

It's quite a longer story than I posted above. My brother *does* crave attention, but for a reason. Sometimes, when I tell him why he plays the games he does, he says I don't, and accuses me of paranoia. Sometimes, rarely, he admits it, and tells me because *I* manupilate her. All I could do at that point is just hit the laugh button because that is so stupid, especially when the problem *is* my being honest, not manupilative.

In any case, the problem is "fixed." I don't tell my sister much at all, but I do tell what I can -- knowing the proper level of honesty she could take as an advice rather than an offense. My brother is been going crazy for the past 2 days, because me and my sister haven't had a single problem yet, and we wont ever. So I figured that he'll eventually break, and change his ways...until we all get along. I used all of the advice given here combined. It works like a charm...

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I guess it's kinda moot now but...

I was gonna agree with Apollo and Chaos Turtle in that there are probably "nicer" ways of being honest. You can be honest in telling her whatever (because you ARE telling her), but there's more diplomatic ways of expressing it (like in all communication).

But since it seems you got it worked out, no biggie...

 

[Jigglypuff]

You got it worked out! Yay!

Did you punch him? If you did, you can tell him I told you to.

(- Steve -)