MAGMA - Play Magic against PC

V

Vaporator

Guest
Hi casual players, :)

please take a look at this website : http://clik.to/magma

You'll find a free version of a new software with AI playing MTG.

Magma (the program) plays with 800 cards ... you can build decks with them or let Magma create a random multicolor or monocolor deck to challenge...

Give it a try ...

Vap
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Warning:

9.50 Mb download, and the patch is another 749Kb...
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Hey, I've got 56k even though I've got myself a nice supercomputer here.

Should have traded it all in for the DSL connection...

[UPDATE]

I've tried the program... Its odd, but manageable if you learn to use the different steps it makes you stop at (Which is ever step except untap).

I haven't used the deck maker program as of yet, but I have tried a couple of the already built decks and found the program to be just a tad inept at fighting back. (Good old fashioned Tank Swarm. Throw out the critters, then attack en mass.)

[UPDATE]

The deckbuilding program is a bit odd... I can't seem to figure out how to create a new deck, and it only has 800 or so cards to choose from... AND NO NIGHTSTALKERS!

My verdict: The developers are spiteful bastards for not putting in not one Nightstalker. HMPH!


You do know I'm kidding, right?
 
V

Vaporator

Guest
Cards comes from all expansions since Alpha and beta.
You can find cardlist on magma website.

Magma is modular and learns effects one by one (flying, draw a card, sacrifice and so on)... so I put in magma a few cards with those effects to check if they work well.

In next version, Magma will play with more than 1000 cards, included all P9, dual lands, Royal Assassin, Millstone, Nevynirral's Disk and a lot of Vintage cards... and strategy will be much better than now...

Enjoy Magma

Vap
 
R

Rooser

Guest
It's bit slow, and there are some bugs, but it mostly works.

Vaporator, some bugs I noticed while playing:

MAGMA casts Bottle Gnomes, I counter it with Exclude, MAGMA sacrifices Bottle Gnomes for 3 life in response.

MAGMA attacks with a creature, (thus tapping it), and before damage goes on the stack, I return it to hand. MAGMA replays the creature during the second main phase, but it comes into play tapped, (Because it was tapped before?).

Also, the AI, even on the highest difficulty level, does stupid and pontless things sometimes, like attacking when I can obviously block and kill the attacking creature with somehting much bigger, or lightning bolting something much bigger than 3 without following it up with anything. If it's got some sort of learning mechanism, then cool, but right now it's not any harder to outwit than the old Microprose game.

EDIT: I realized I owed you more than this. So here's more comments.

1) I really like this project. It's ultimate value is that you can build whatever kind of deck you want, and then play it against an always-available opponent. So keep up the good work.

2) To those thinking about playing it, but don't like the current card count, don't worry, it's got an intersting enough cross-section of spells that you can build most styles of decks. Yes, it's limiting, but there will be more to come and enough fun stuff is there right now to make it worth playing.

3) The biggest problem I have with it so far, actually, is not the occasional rules glitch or wave of stupity, but the pacing of the game. It moves too slow to convince me to sit down and play more than a few games at a time. I don't mind having to right click through every moment of priority, in fact I think that's an elegant way to access the comlexity of the game, it's just that animation and sound and such really takes up some time. I would prefer more basic graphics and no sound if it meant the game would could move as fast as a real game.
 
V

Vaporator

Guest
Thanks Rooser for your comments...

Magma is growing and in next version will play with 1000+ cards...

I'm trying to speed up it and making him harder to beat...


My humble hope is to help beginners and give some fun to others... by the moment

In the future... who knows ...

Thanks again
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Well, you've piqued my curiosity. I remember the hours of fun I had playing the old Microprose version of MTG for the PC. The only thing that annoyed me was the limited card selection. If you can get around that and provide a really challening game I would definitely investigate (and perhaps invest if necessary) in it.

-Ferret

"Please keep us posted"
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
You get 800 cards, the AI sux if you drop it down from elite, and you really have to get used to going through all steps of play.



At least you can right click to blaze through it all instead of pressing that stupid button... Why not bring back Micropose's Magic: The Gathering space bar technique? Does anyone listen to me anymore?
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Originally posted by Nightstalkers
At least you can right click to blaze through it all instead of pressing that stupid button... Why not bring back Micropose's Magic: The Gathering space bar technique? Does anyone listen to me anymore?
What? You say something? :) Seriously though, a lot can be learned from Microprose's old game. Since it's been "abandonware" for so many years, it would be nice if they released the source code for anyone that wanted to play w/ it - but, of course they'd have to get WotC's permission and w/ the success of MTGO, I don't see that happening...

-Ferret

"It would be great for when you don't feel like dealing w/ RL players..."
 
E

EricBess

Guest
Originally posted by Rooser
MAGMA casts Bottle Gnomes, I counter it with Exclude, MAGMA sacrifices Bottle Gnomes for 3 life in response.
Nothing personal, Vaporator, if a bug like this one is an indication that whoever designed this game doesn't understand the rules of Magic very well. As both a level 3 judge and a programmer with a degree in computer science, I can tell you that this is something that indicates a design flaw rather than just a simple miscoding.

I think it's admirable of whoever is doing this that they even got it finished. They are obviously very good (or very determined) programmers, but without enough feeling for the rules to be able to translate them properly. With the correct design based on the rules, the Exclude/Bottle Gnomes thing should have never been possible.
 
T

train

Guest
Eric...

maybe this is an opportunity for someone to be a rules tester for the program?... Opportunities pop up everywhere you know...;)

Vaporator - do you have someone testing rules interaction for the program?...
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Heck, I'm a rulesmonger too, and I like this project, so I'm willing to play and play and play and find whatever rules bugs I can.

Though EricBess certainly has a point, we should also consider that this project really isn't finished. Vaporator himself said that much of the card selection is based on running the gamut of mechanics so he can test them, and he hasn't implemented every mechanic yet.

Yes, the Bottle Gnomes error that I experienced is very serious, but seeing how the program handles stack issues, I actually don't think it would be that hard to fix. I mean, the program literally goes through the whole announcing the spell, passing priority, etc. process. There is a separate stack window where the bottle gnomes existed, and it was going to exist there until I passed priority. I played exclude and literally pointed at this Bottle Gnomes I could see on the stack, much as I might point a terror at a creature in play. I think the problem, (And yes, it's a very serious problem), was just that the computer is not told to apply different rules to things on the stack as it does in play, but the way it's all visually, (and correctly), represented in the program, that doesn't seem like it's too big a deal to fix.

If people don't like this program, they just don't appreciate that they're catching it in its infantile stage. If Vaporator keeps at it, it might be the gaming solution we're looking for, but he needs to keep at it, and he needs to take our criticism seriously.
 
V

Vaporator

Guest
I'm glad to see all this interest around Magma...

I know there are some bugs, otherwise the release would not be 0.656 :)

The game is very complex and it's very difficult to test every game condition. I have 20 betatesters all around the world and my brother is one of the strongest italian player, so I have a good help.

About rulings, I think to know them very deeply, but analyzing and coding are two different steps... so sometimes the program behaviour is not the one I expect.
And sometimes I go wrong coding...

Not to mention the coding of every card with its text, its specific attributes and so on...

If someone doesn't like Magma, no problem, I'll go on anyway with my project... the engine works well and I have no difficulties in adding new mechanics ...

I'm concentrating on AI... you'll see the results.
but I don't think Magma will never win a tournament. It could be a good sparring partner and a funny toy for beginners, and you can play with a lot of T1 cards you'll never possess (Black lotus, Moxes, Library of Alexandria ...)

I'm thinking to show new release of Magma at Genova (Italy)Pro Tour tournament on september, 13...

Vap
 
T

train

Guest
You might want to get Wizards's permission before showing it at the PT - and that's not too far away....

is that an actual "pro tour" tourney?...

and that's not too far away!...
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Could you also try adding something where you can play multiplay and the like? that would be neat....
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I do think the project is admirable and will take lots of effort to get it right. Keep up the good work (from what I'm reading; I don't have time to find the bugs like Rooser :) )
 
T

train

Guest
How does it play spidey?...

I have not played it yet... I've been busy with the whole Ebay thing...
 
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