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Rando
Guest
Has any one else read this? I was just wondering how it would fly here at the seat of casual play.
http://www.thedojo.com/column2/col.000918afo.shtml
http://www.thedojo.com/column2/col.000918afo.shtml
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Ura
Guest
First off, I'd like to say that that guy is a horses ass.
He has obviously, completely and utterly missed the entire idea and essence behind casual play.
He has has the persona of a DCI player that doesn't care about anything other than winning to the point that he has no idea what the game is really about and thus will probably never amount to very much or even reach the upper tier of tournament play.
His theories are backwards for the most part and he really seems to be trying to make a point out of idiocy.
I have nothing wrong with tourny play at all, heck, I used to play in them all the time, but he's doing a really bad job of trying to make them sound good or even better then casual play.
He really sounds like a person who just got jaded from being screwed by his play group(s) and never got the chance to find out what true casual play is all about. To bad for him too.
He has obviously, completely and utterly missed the entire idea and essence behind casual play.
He has has the persona of a DCI player that doesn't care about anything other than winning to the point that he has no idea what the game is really about and thus will probably never amount to very much or even reach the upper tier of tournament play.
His theories are backwards for the most part and he really seems to be trying to make a point out of idiocy.
I have nothing wrong with tourny play at all, heck, I used to play in them all the time, but he's doing a really bad job of trying to make them sound good or even better then casual play.
He really sounds like a person who just got jaded from being screwed by his play group(s) and never got the chance to find out what true casual play is all about. To bad for him too.
K
krichaiushii
Guest
Strike 1: More power to tourney players, but all I have gained in contsructed tourneys is little but headaches. The unpredictability of large chaos games is what makes Magic worthwhile and fun. Where else can the balance of power shift on the basis of who made the last bad pun?
Games are played for enjoyment. Consider it a travesty of the American way, but winning doesn't get it for me (it IS nice, though).
Strike 2: The only restrictions I have encountered are self-imposed. Problematic cards should force creative solutions in new decks, not restriction of cards. This in turn results in more focused decks across the board, as everyone finds a card type that annoys them, and they want to stop it.
Strike 3: "Winning" has broad generalizations. Being the last person in play is generally considered winning, but to be honest, many decks are played for the sole purpose of playing a certain card, or getting an obscene combo off. So everyone plays to "win", he just needs to broaden his definition of winning.
To continue his baseball analogy -- 3 strikes and he's out.
That's all.
Games are played for enjoyment. Consider it a travesty of the American way, but winning doesn't get it for me (it IS nice, though).
Strike 2: The only restrictions I have encountered are self-imposed. Problematic cards should force creative solutions in new decks, not restriction of cards. This in turn results in more focused decks across the board, as everyone finds a card type that annoys them, and they want to stop it.
Strike 3: "Winning" has broad generalizations. Being the last person in play is generally considered winning, but to be honest, many decks are played for the sole purpose of playing a certain card, or getting an obscene combo off. So everyone plays to "win", he just needs to broaden his definition of winning.
To continue his baseball analogy -- 3 strikes and he's out.
That's all.
A
Apollo
Guest
I'm right there with Ura. That guy had a crummy play group, and surmises that all casual play is the same. My group doesn't ban Jokulhaups; how dumb is that?
That is a terrible article, and has no place on any website; most of the stuff in there is bull.
And I do play in tournaments, so don't assume I'm just defending my own. In fact, I rarely play casual at all anymore (not much opportunity).
That is a terrible article, and has no place on any website; most of the stuff in there is bull.
And I do play in tournaments, so don't assume I'm just defending my own. In fact, I rarely play casual at all anymore (not much opportunity).
D
Darsh
Guest
When I read this it got me soo mad, he doesn't have any idea of how to have fun when playing magic. I personally dislike people who are only in it to win, I mean its only a GAME. The part that really got me is this.
Well, I feel that tournament play is the pinnacle of all gaming, and since Magic is the game that takes the most out of you (we have all put tons of time and money into this crazy pastime), everyone should take at least one crack at justifying the whole experience and recouping some of their "losses."
Losses!?! You call having a good time with friends playing magic a loss?!? You call all of the hours of enjoyment a loss?!? You call making new friends through magic a loss?!?
And it didn't help when he compared us to pokemon that do not evolve to tournement players, only stagnate casual players.
Well, I feel that tournament play is the pinnacle of all gaming, and since Magic is the game that takes the most out of you (we have all put tons of time and money into this crazy pastime), everyone should take at least one crack at justifying the whole experience and recouping some of their "losses."
Losses!?! You call having a good time with friends playing magic a loss?!? You call all of the hours of enjoyment a loss?!? You call making new friends through magic a loss?!?
And it didn't help when he compared us to pokemon that do not evolve to tournement players, only stagnate casual players.
H
Hetemti
Guest
The point of playing in a tournament: To try to win using the best deck availiable in order to win prizes.
The point of playing causal games: To try to win using the strangest deck availiable in order to eat potato chips and drink Nehi cola.
______________
I'm not a Zebra, for the Lion still eats the Zebra.
I'm not a Lion, for the Lion is shot by the Hunter.
I'm not a Hunter, for the Hunter is killed by the Mosquito.
Fear the insect, for it is the only true master of it's prey.
_______________
"You can swat a thousand gnats, but a thousand more will assail you."
The point of playing causal games: To try to win using the strangest deck availiable in order to eat potato chips and drink Nehi cola.
______________
I'm not a Zebra, for the Lion still eats the Zebra.
I'm not a Lion, for the Lion is shot by the Hunter.
I'm not a Hunter, for the Hunter is killed by the Mosquito.
Fear the insect, for it is the only true master of it's prey.
_______________
"You can swat a thousand gnats, but a thousand more will assail you."
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ErinPuff
Guest
My (practically nonexistant) play group doesn't have any restrictions or bannings (except the painfully obvious, like no Championship cards.. one guy still doesn't understand why we have that rule), seeing as none of us have any good cards anyway...
I don't play in tournaments because I don't have enough new cards to play Type II, and I don't have enough broken cards to play Type I.. there's also the small problem of money and time.. but I don't have a thing against people who play in tourneys.
I play to have fun, but sometimes the fun is in winning. Like the time I beat my friend's really slow 4-color stick-all-the-big-cool-looking-cards-in deck with my fast red burn deck.. that was fun, if only to see the expression on his face when he realized that his "cool deck" was beaten by my "crap deck"...
I don't play in tournaments because I don't have enough new cards to play Type II, and I don't have enough broken cards to play Type I.. there's also the small problem of money and time.. but I don't have a thing against people who play in tourneys.
I play to have fun, but sometimes the fun is in winning. Like the time I beat my friend's really slow 4-color stick-all-the-big-cool-looking-cards-in deck with my fast red burn deck.. that was fun, if only to see the expression on his face when he realized that his "cool deck" was beaten by my "crap deck"...
Z
Zadok001
Guest
Ding, dong, the brain is dead... Sheesh, I can't believe this guy wrote so much about casual play without actually knowing anything.
I really can't add anything to what's been said already, so I'll just add my chip to the pot and say, 'Ditto.'
I really can't add anything to what's been said already, so I'll just add my chip to the pot and say, 'Ditto.'
M
Multani
Guest
Can anyone tell me moggfanatic's e-mail. We may have a traitor in our midst...
The e-mail address was disturbing...
The e-mail address was disturbing...
C
Cateran Emperor
Guest
Wow, this guy is kind of like an "anti-me" For one thing, he's on teh Wastelan..er...Dojo, the anti-CPA, and for another thing, he simply assumes that playing with one group makes every other group just like it. I've played in torunaments in quite a few places, and unless it's back at my home store with a semi-casual attitude, it's purely craptastic.
I agree with some of the things the writer said, like tourney play kinda IS a "higher" evolution than casual play; it's a tougher environment with more restrictions and closer attention to the rules.
However, he does seem to imply that a tourney player and a casual player are mutually exclusive; one cannot be one AND be the other. As we all know, that's pretty far off the mark.
I think his attitude is telling throughout the article. Dislikes diplomacy in multi-player? Can't stand not taking a turn in 15 minutes (implying he's NOT there to shoot the breeze but to "smash faces")? He just sounds like a hardcore duelist where tourney play is best for him.
However, he does seem to imply that a tourney player and a casual player are mutually exclusive; one cannot be one AND be the other. As we all know
, that's pretty far off the mark.I think his attitude is telling throughout the article. Dislikes diplomacy in multi-player? Can't stand not taking a turn in 15 minutes (implying he's NOT there to shoot the breeze but to "smash faces")? He just sounds like a hardcore duelist where tourney play is best for him.
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Duel
Guest
Right some people were cut out for tourney play. It took me 2 years to get the hang of multiplayer games, because the action is so different. You start watching what people DON'T do, and why.
As to bannings, short of the Power 9, we have none. and if somebody could prove he had one of the power 9 or more, I'd let him play with it. If a deck ever becomes to powerful people begin to metagame for it, and aim for it immediately.
As to bannings, short of the Power 9, we have none. and if somebody could prove he had one of the power 9 or more, I'd let him play with it. If a deck ever becomes to powerful people begin to metagame for it, and aim for it immediately.
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Dune Echo
Guest
What is Nicholas Labarre's deck that he's talking about? Was it a successful Chimera deck?
Killer Joe
New member
I know this guy to see and all I can say is that he and Mike Turian and Randy Buhler and the rest of Team CMU are out for blood. And you know what? That's okay. His "Angry Hermit" deck is a nightmare for anyone up against it, so what? I'll re-read the article, but I wasn't offended because I think this guy just thinks differently than me.
I'll tell you what, if I see him at the Pittsburgh pre-release, I'll be sure NOT to ask him to play a friendly casual game, okay?
I'll tell you what, if I see him at the Pittsburgh pre-release, I'll be sure NOT to ask him to play a friendly casual game, okay?
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rkoelsch
Guest
Big mistake for me. I didn't bring a tuned deck but the people there made me feel like I was wasteing there time. They should have been glad for the easy win. I will stay local because i like screwing around. I like bringing a deck that it is a challenge to win with. Not poorly made but more fun not focused.
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arhar
Guest
Sorry I didn't notice this thread and posted exactly the same thing. D'oh!
Killer Joe
New member
I re-read the article and you know what, I'm still not offended. Being a person with empathy (the ability to see others' points of view), I think he was just trying to relate HIS thoughts about HIS experiences. He probably should've included a lot of "In my opinion...." or "...at least, that's how I see it." to his paragraphs.
Look, you're only going to get out of the article an opinion that fits your thinking, for example, I read the article, having been "tipped-off" by this thread, so I automatically put on my "Open-minded" hat (sometimes a very, very bad hat-it's just plain annoying), and I read. What I got out of the article was exactly what I put into the article, a cool-headed opinion (again, an annoying habit-some say I'm without passion). However, no one is wrong in saying anything about the article. Yes, one could make the case that he hates people who play casually, because that's how ONE could read into it. Also, yes, one could make the case that, in the right perspective, this dude was just relating HIS experience and that no harm was intended.
Again, I don't know Aaron, and I'm sure I never will, so I'm probably not going to approach him about playing a friendly game anytime soon. Besides, when he's at a local tourney in the 'Burgh, you can't get near him because there's an army of young PTQers all around him, Jeezsh, you'd think he was Jamie or someone.
BTW, flame me if It'll make you feel better.
Look, you're only going to get out of the article an opinion that fits your thinking, for example, I read the article, having been "tipped-off" by this thread, so I automatically put on my "Open-minded" hat (sometimes a very, very bad hat-it's just plain annoying), and I read. What I got out of the article was exactly what I put into the article, a cool-headed opinion (again, an annoying habit-some say I'm without passion). However, no one is wrong in saying anything about the article. Yes, one could make the case that he hates people who play casually, because that's how ONE could read into it. Also, yes, one could make the case that, in the right perspective, this dude was just relating HIS experience and that no harm was intended.
Again, I don't know Aaron, and I'm sure I never will, so I'm probably not going to approach him about playing a friendly game anytime soon. Besides, when he's at a local tourney in the 'Burgh, you can't get near him because there's an army of young PTQers all around him, Jeezsh, you'd think he was Jamie or someone.
BTW, flame me if It'll make you feel better.
R
rkoelsch
Guest
I had bad experiences at PTQ's so I may not be the best judge. But I enjoy participating in tournaments at the local game store. I don't do well because I don't spend a lot of time tuning decks. I throw a deck together often the night before the tournament and go play. Sometimes I do better than others. I would like to think it was play skill but it was luck in not playing anyone more prepared than me.
I think I qualify as a casual player.
I don't agree with a lot that he had to say but look where he posted it. Though the Dojo has lost the tournament edge it is still looked at by tournament players. Now if he posted it here I would say he was trying to annoy others. But he is just stating his opinion and as with any post you don't have to read it.
I hadn't intended to read it until I saw a lot of discussion here. Then I thought I should read it before posting. Thanks for reading.
I think I qualify as a casual player.
I don't agree with a lot that he had to say but look where he posted it. Though the Dojo has lost the tournament edge it is still looked at by tournament players. Now if he posted it here I would say he was trying to annoy others. But he is just stating his opinion and as with any post you don't have to read it.
I hadn't intended to read it until I saw a lot of discussion here. Then I thought I should read it before posting. Thanks for reading.
F
FoundationOfRancor
Guest
Casual Players play to play.
Tournement Players play to win.
Neither is bad, both are fun.
Its all good
Tournement Players play to win.
Neither is bad, both are fun.
Its all good
G
galtwish
Guest
I guess most of you have really good, large play groups. I, on the other hand, have a playgroup of two, including myself. In the last three years, I think I have had about a dozen good casual games out of 30, and no good multiplayer games out of a dozen or so. If you don't know your opponents as friends, they tend to screw you over, either through petty vindictiveness ("You killed my Shrieking Drake when I was going to go infinite with Alluren and Soul Warden"), stupid play ("Maybe I should have countered that Phrexian Processor when he has Angelic Chorus out"), or just plain meanness ("You're new, so we'll kill you first, 'cause we don't like foreigners"). It is so hard to play multiplayer or casual outside of a regular play group, because you don't know what the acceptable power level is. Tournament Magic is superior in the fact that it is highly transferrable, whereas casual Magic is generally best kept in the family (so to speak).
Oh, and Aaron Forsythe is a good writer, a good player, and a joy to read. If you don't like what he says, that doesn't make him an idiot. His opinion has obviously been formed over years of first-hand observation, so it's pretty hard to discredit him as being uninformed.
Erik
Oh, and Aaron Forsythe is a good writer, a good player, and a joy to read. If you don't like what he says, that doesn't make him an idiot. His opinion has obviously been formed over years of first-hand observation, so it's pretty hard to discredit him as being uninformed.
Erik