Legacy news

[Spiderman]

Legacy Weapon

 

[Killer Joe]

It's great to read about hero's of yore comming back and flexing their Magic Muscle and showing that you can leave but you CAN also come back.

 

[Spiderman]

Even better when you can come up with a deck that no one else thought of...

 

[TomB]

That's the part I liked best...

 

[Killer Joe]

Well, maybe, but since he's a classic deck builder it doesn't ring the same for me.

Now if a "nobody random scrub" did it, that that would be something!

 

[Spiderman]

I don't know, if you're out a couple of years, you do get rusty. It probably doesn't take as long to pick it back up, but still...

 

[Killer Joe]

Sure, but according the article he did some reseach via forums et al. No scrub does that. And besides, once you're good at it all it takes is a refresher course and "WAHLA!" you're back into the mix.

I'm sure Finkle could come back any day and take away a title in any format. Good Magic players don't become sucky ones, you learn the basics of being a champion and that most likely remains with you.

I'll give you that he'd been out a while and that may have been an advantage, heck, sometimes the answers are right there in the history books (Pikulapotence).

 

[Oversoul]

Nice to see a black-heavy deck doing so well in Legacy.

 

[Spiderman]

KJ: Or sometimes current players may not learn from past history...

I don't know if Finkle could "come and take a title today". It's like saying the first pros were the best and no one can beat them if they come back, which is certainly not the case concerning today's pros. And this could be just specific to this one event, of which since Pikula's name is already note-worthy, it's news in of itself. I was more impressed that a "new deck" in the whole of Legacy could come out of "nowhere" and almost beat the existing field, whether it was played by a former pro or a newbie.

 

[Killer Joe]

I think I know what you're saying Spidey, it'd be like could the Yankees of the 1930's (or whenever their glory days were) could beat the Yankees of today. But I suggest that it could be more possible for Finkle to come back and do very well or maybe win a title as a direct result (correlation) of him being a past successful pro-tour player as oppose to a lesser known PT player (Dave Price).

maybe

 

[Oversoul]

I was more impressed that a "new deck" in the whole of Legacy could come out of "nowhere" and almost beat the existing field, whether it was played by a former pro or a newbie.

Ditto. But for me, it's also encouraging to see Legacy's most underrepresented color used as the primary color in a deck. Blue is, of course, great in Legacy. Red has some good power cards along with Goblins and Sligh (also, burn cards). Green has numerous viable creatures, mana production cards, and things like Survival. White is somewhat underrepresented, I think, but really sees a lot of play (especially considering that most of its bombs are banned) as a secondary color and even has enough presence for WW to be a contender. Black has typically been relegated to the role of a tertiary color. This deck uses a color and cards from that color (Hymn, Hyppie, Nantuko Shade, Vindicate) that have been underused up until now.

Black may finally have become a force in Legacy.

 

[Killer Joe]

Black may finally have become a force in Legacy.

Question: Is it that Black is represented in Pikula's deck or that it was an original rogue deck; that you liked so much?

Spidey and TomB seemed like they liked it for rogue-ness.

 

[Oversoul]

Question: Is it that Black is represented in Pikula's deck or that it was an original rogue deck; that you liked so much?

Spidey and TomB seemed like they liked it for rogue-ness.

Original? It has the basic skeleton of a black control deck (that hasn't been particularly successful in Legacy) and a few unorthodox tricks that will probably become more common now. It's certainly innovative, but "rogue" doesn't have much significance for me.

I like that it championed a previously underrepresented strategy (black control).

 

[Notepad]

Are there even such things are rogue decks now? That deck is cool and likely original to the owner, but you look at it and see, like Oversoul said, classic black control pieces. I look at it and see the lingering pieces of a Necro deck. A few changes here and there, but it hardly seems outright totally new.

Just seems like something partially original that the metagame had no idea was coming.

My perspective: Rogue means totally original. Nobody expected it could even be built for a tournament setting. Let's see someone come in with tribal kavu or something (yeah yeah, I know, really bad example, but its an example of something rogue). Just dressing up old archetypes from years ago doesn't feel so rogue.

 

[Oversoul]

My perspective: Rogue means totally original. Nobody expected it could even be built for a tournament setting. Let's see someone come in with tribal kavu or something (yeah yeah, I know, really bad example, but its an example of something rogue). Just dressing up old archetypes from years ago doesn't feel so rogue.

I originally heard "rogue" used (in the context of Magic tournaments) to describe decks that are below the radar, so to speak, and ever since then that's how I've thought of it. They might be decent to use in a tournament, but they aren't mainstream enough that anyone would ever metagame against them. Since its inception, Legacy has drawn sundry players. There have been many attempts to rehash old decks from other formats or retool "rogue" decks from the old Type 1.5 and altogether, I'm sure Legacy has hundreds of types of rogue decks that have surfaced in tournaments.

 

[Spiderman]

You could make a case either way; "rogue" at this point in the game is probably subjective in its definition, much like "casual"

But I liked it because the significant part of the deck hadn't been seen or won before in a tourney setting (which gets the biggest publicity for a decklisting).

 

[Killer Joe]

Oversoul, you liked the deck because it was of a color under-represented in Legacy, right?

As for my word "original", I mispoke, But I did mean to say "rogue" in the context that it was a deck not being currently played in Legacy.

As for the question of; "Are there even such things are rogue decks now?" as posed by NP, Yes, in the context that I meant. By what YOU may have meant, well, that be an interesting discussion.

I once wrote a front page article addressing rehashing 3-Deuce (and got blasted by "Tim" for writting so horribly) and i would say that that was an attempt to 're-tool' an pld deck archetype.

However, If I use a Necropotence in my deck and a creature kill card does this constitute as an already established deck-arcetype? What if I've never heard of that deck type before and made it all on my own, am I net-decking even though I didn't research it all?

"Rogue" ia alive and well, in my opinion

 

[Notepad]

What if I've never heard of that deck type before and made it all on my own, am I net-decking even though I didn't research it all?
"Rogue" ia alive and well, in my opinion

I'd tend to disagree. Sure rogue decks can still be made, but today's tournament environment is so tightly honed that it's hard to win with anything other than the tried and true archetypes. There are certain cards that will always be tournament viable, and through time they've been proven to be. This shows up in Legacy/Extended, where the tried and true deck types just get tweaked a bit and keep on rolling. Block and Standard actually have a bit going for them in this department, since a limited and fresh card pool mean the archtypes look a lot less like themselves, and little comboes spring up here and there that are pretty cool and original for five seconds (until its netdecked, that is).

On the point of--what if you never knew of something--I ain't gonna argue that. Hey, if you make your own version of The Deck without ever hearing of it, cool. Still not rogue to the field because the field knows it. And from the perspective of the field, neither is it original. On a humorous note, I remember Rizzo making fun of how so many isolated players take credit for inventing obvious stuff, and then yelling at him or other writers.

But at the end of everything, I'm gonna have to agree with Spidey that the term rogue is entirely subjective, just like casual.

 

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, you liked the deck because it was of a color under-represented in Legacy, right?

Yes, but it's also more than just the color (which is a big part of it for me). Some black cards see use, but black control, in any form, hasn't been too successful in Legacy. In comparison to the success of decks that are essentially similar to this one in other formats, Legacy has seen a paucity of black cards in decklists, and controlling, black-heavy decks have been nearly nonexistent (there have been some attempts at Pox decks, but nothing that has shown impressive results in tournaments). I think this could lead to the format becoming more balanced and healthy (if other players will take after this guy and play decks like his).

 

[Killer Joe]

O: Thanks, your answer is "Yes", I was just confused because I thought your were agreeing with Spidey at first and now I see you were agreeing with yourself , my bad

NP: "Subjective", of all people I should definitely know that (being a teacher and all). It's too bad that there are no more rogue deck builders for legacy/extended, at least I think that's what you're saying. I liked that Pikula came up with his deck (though I guess not entirely original now).

I can only imagine what it must've been like for the Gladiators when the first time a "Morning Star" was introduced to the arena. I'll bet THAT was 'rogue'