Laying groundwork for the next game of Wizards.

B

BigBlue

Guest
First off, who's in? I know Spidey is almost getting caught in his own web with anticipation... :D

Secondly, I am going to run the bidding in sequence in public rather than silent.

EricBess mentioned he'd like the ability to change a bid after the initial bid, what are your thoughts?

Should I make peoples no brainer moves or not? One concern I'd have is that it does let on that it's a no brainer... (no brainer meaning a club is led and you have no wizard or Jester with only one club)

Any other suggestions or questions?
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Can you (or EricBess) explain again how changing a bid after the initial one would work?

I vote for just finishing out the round if the winner's pre-determined (like what I did). A couple of people here can use the "no-brainer" move to their advantage :)
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
I'll try. If I misunderstand it, he can correct me.

The suggestion is, that you go around the table in play order once getting initial bids, and then you'd go around the table again to get a final bid.

Now, some sort of rule would need to be in place, like only being able to increase or decrease your bid by 1 to avoid abuse. But that way, if you felt you made a mistake with the open bid you could rectify it. You could also make one or both of those bids silent if needed.

There are many permutations, and each changes the strategy to a degree.

The question is, do overbids help or hurt? With overbids, everyone scrapes to make their bid and someone always gets set which leads to aggressive play. With underbids or equal bids (which would be more often in the public and 2-bid systems I believe) the game is a little more passive and strong hands win the day (ergo more of a game of chance).

I guess another question is whether there should be 4 or 5 players? I don't believe the game was designed for 5, but seemed to work ok. With 5, more cards are out and you don't get a trump the final hand. With 4, Wizards and Jesters are more likely to be hidden since less cards are dealt.


Yes, I am an analyzer like EB... Perhaps even to a fault...
 
E

EricBess

Guest
Actually, if bids are done in order, I don't think there is any reason to change your bid. Often, unless the last bidder has an obvious bid, he will bid in an attempt to gather up extra tricks or ditch tricks he though were good otherwise based on bids so far.

My suggestion was more applicable if the bids were simultaneous. For example, everyone submits there bid and there is a total overbid of 4 (like this round). Everyone sees what was bid by each player and then decides if they want their bid to stand or if they want to change it. Everyone simultaniously submits a rebid and those stand as the bids for the round. If everyone decided to decrement by one, for example, you would now have a 1 trick underbid.

To avoid abuse, there would be a rule that you could only have a total of 5 points of alteration over the course of the game. After that, your first bid would have to stand. This would be to avoid someone with a really bad hand first saying they were going to take a bunch just to try to get people to lower their bids based on an overbid. For example, I can't possibly take a trick, so I go 4 to throw everyone off, knowing that I'm going to change my bid to 0.

If we are going to do sequential bidding, I don't see the point of a rebid.

On another note, I think it works fine with either 4 or 5. If another person who has been watching wants to play, I can relinquish my spot at the next game. I have a lot of things I need to be doing in the near future, so I'll play if there are enough spots, but I don't mind sitting out if not.
 
J

Jigglypuff

Guest
I think I'm going to step out of the next game as well. Nothing personal. Just don't feel like playing again.

(- Steve -)
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
For All interested...

The rules are simple.

Game involves a standard deck of cards with 8 additional cards (4 Wizards, and 4 Jesters).

There are 12 rounds. In each round you are dealt a number of cards equal to the round (so 1 card in the first, 2 in the second, ... and 12 in the third round).

In all rounds (except the last) the top card is turned over and it's suit becomes trump (except for Jester and Wizard which means there is no trump). In the last round there is no trump.

Then in order, each player bids how many tricks they expect to take that round. After the bid, the first trick begins with the player making the initial bid (regardless of their bid).

Each player in turn plays either a card in the suit led, a Jester, a Wizard, or any other card if they don't have a card in the suit which was led.

The winner of the trick is the one who played the first Wizard (if any were played), the highest trump card played (if no Wizard was played), or the highest card in the suit led. That player leads the next trick.

After the final trick, scores are tallied based on the number of tricks taken with respect to the bid. To make your bid you must hit it exactly (extra tricks hurt).

If a player makes their bid, they get 20 + 10 per trick taken.

If a player misses their bid, they lose 10 points per trick off of their bid.


Example of a round 4.

Order of play is Albert, Bruce, Charlie, and Diane.

Albert bids 2
Bruce bids 0
Charlie bids 2
Diane bids 1

The card turned was a 3 of Spades (making Spades Trump).

Trick 1 - Albert (Q of Diamonds), Bruce (7 of D), Charlie (10 of S), Diane (Jester). Charlie takes it with the Trump.

Trick 2 - Charlie (A of Spades), Diane (Wizard), Albert (4 of S), Bruce ( 8 of S). Diane takes it with the Wizard.

Trick 3 - Diane (4 of Hearts), Albert (9 of Spades), Bruce ( 7 of H), Charlie (J of Hearts). Albert takes it with Trump.

Trick 4 - Albert (Wizard), Bruce ( 2 of Clubs), Charlie (J of Spades), Diane ( 4 of Clubs ) Albert takes it with the Wizard.

Results - Albert takes 2, bid 2 so 20+20 = 40 pts.
Bruce takes 0, bid 0 so 20 + 0 = 20 pts.
Charlie takes 1, bid 2 so -10 pts.
Diane takes 1, bid 1 so 20 + 10 = 30 pts.

The next round Bruce would lead off (each round it shifts by one).


**Any discrepencies with the rules Spidey? Did I miss something? **
 
J

Jigglypuff

Guest
It is similar to Hearts. The basic rules of play are the same, but the scoring method is much different.

(- Steve -)
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'd like to be in but can't get on reliably until the week after Thanksgiving, so if you want to start without me that's fine.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Given this Holiday week, and your expected preoccupation with your young 'un, I'll wait 'til after your return. I don't mind starting it before round 12 ends if you want though...

Roll Call... Who's actually in for this new game...

We need at least 3 players other than Spidey and as many as 4.

Nightstalkers?
Train?
RK?
CT?
EB?
 
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