King Bush II to hire civilian spies?

[Lotus Mox]

Can anyone tell me if this is true?

It's a good thing I was a child when such things would've mattered to me, although I remember I was being told to not tell Honecker jokes to everyone

I'm pretty sure nearly every citizen of East Germany had a Stasi file, from what I've heard they contained lots of interesting things, like when you sold something to some1 in west germany, places where you can better observate the person, and other seemingly irrelevant informations.
Really scary and funny, sadly there were these suspected "terrorists" who somehow disappeared because of them.

Maybe some day when this regime ends you can also look up your files, like the East Germans can do.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

It is true.

The idea is that people to whom we normally give access without reservation -- the cable guy, elcetric meter-reader, mail carrier, pizza delivery guy, etc -- can have a look around and report anything suspicious they see. This circumvents rules against the police doing so.

As far as I know, the idea isn't very popular here, and the Postal Service has declined to allow its employees to participate.

 

[Lotus Mox]

Unless the Postal Service is allowed to know who participates, promises like that are pretty hollow.

I don't think any Service would openly admit doing these things, since it would give their employees an aura of distrust around them, which can't be a good thing. But if the rewards for spying are nice enough (next to no1 would do it for free) you'll always find enough individuals who participate, even from firms which are advertsied as "spy free".

Is it known what counts as suspicious? I mean a nuke in the living room prolly does, but what's the most unsuspicious thing which would have to be reported? If only extremely suspicious things get reported what's the difference to "NEWSFLASH: cable guy finds parts of at least 30 dead bodies in some dude's living room", so I'd guess it goes a bit beyond the things which have a red blinking sign of "TERRORIST" attached.

 

[laxweasel]

You must be careful.
Past events have given the government a "reason" to watch us all a little bit more closely.
Are they watching you now?
However, it has been made know that the cable-tv industry will not take part.

 

[Svenmonkey]

Terrorists are everywhere! Everywhere I tell you! They're gonna kill us all! Omigosh! Omigosh! Let's throw away all our rights so we can catch the terrorists! I think we should spy on everyone because of 9 guys who hijacked some planes almost a year ago!

 

[EricBess]

Are these some of the same people that were complaining a year ago because the Bush administration didn't do anything to stop the terrorist attack in the first place?

Guys, I'm not commenting one way or another (because I don't have near enough information), but let's please be consistant and not simply play partisan values here...

 

[Chaos Turtle]

I didn't complain. I blame no one except the terrorists for what happened. Maybe it could have been prevented; maybe not.

But if drifting toward a police state is what it takes to stop terrorism (and I don't think it will anyway) then I am not willing to go along with it. Is there nothing to be learned from history? Surely there are ways to protect Americans from domestic terrorism that don't require Americans to spy on one another.

And who shall I blame for the eroding of our freedoms? There is no one to blame except the people doing it. The current administration (by which I am mainly referring to Mssrs. Rumsfeld, Ridge and Ashcroft) is foisting an agenda on us that they couldn't get through during Bush I's reign, using the terrorist threat as the excuse and preying on the insecurities of Americans.

I am praying that the November elections will get some people on Capitol Hill who can put this in check.

Really, I don't mean to sound paranoid but I'm amazed at what's happening in this country. If we let it happen, we'll get what we deserve, and we'll blame everyone but ourselves for it.

 

[Multani]

Let's not forget all the other countries in which citizens 'assisted' the government in helping catch criminals:

Maoist China
Stalist Russia

That the U.S. now is moving toward a police-state mentality implies a double standard...

One should read history, and learn that a lot of dictatorships arrise in times of crisis, and war. I fear at this rate, the U.S. will turn out to become a modern day Roman Empire.

 

[Spiderman]

However, the one difference between those countries and the US is that they were dictatorships (essentially) and the US (so far) still heeds to the electoral process. What one president can do, another can undo (already seen as Bush has done some about-faces to some of Clinton's programs and policies).

I don't think there's anything to worry about in the long run.

 

[Baskil]

Originally posted by Spiderman
What one president can do, another can undo (already seen as Bush has done some about-faces to some of Clinton's programs and policies).

Under normal circumstances, the erosion of privacy and rights do not get overturned by later administrations. They can undo, but they mostly just follow industry/top 10% money.

And well, the point about Bush overturning Clinton's last minute orders is interesting. It's seems strange to me that Clinton had all term to inact these things (like lowering arsenic levels in water), yet waited until after Bush got elected. It's as if he knew that these were going to be overturned, making Bush look the fool.

 

[Spiderman]

So are you agreeing with me about the "undo" or are you saying that we started out with a "full cup" of privacy and rights and in the last 200+ years, it's been drunken from so the level steadily lowers?

I don't have examples, but my impression was that not all last minute Clinton policies/decisions/whatever were the ones overturned. Some was stuff beforehand. I thought. But, it's probably the same as those last minute pardons that he got some flak over...

 

[Baskil]

I was just rambling, sorry

I'd say as far as the privacy cup, that it started out full, lost some fluid, and gained back some through technological advances (Curtains, etc ), only to be lost again.

Eventually it will be empty.

 

[Spiderman]

And/or the US will cease to exist in its present form

I guess I'm more optimistic about it

 

[train]

I would like to state that this shouldn't be needed... at all.

If the intelligience community had done their job in the first place - these guys from 9/11 would have been shot down during pilot training school.

Just about everything we do is recorded in some fashion or another... Internet and forms of communication are only 2 of the strongest records of our lives out there.

Every site we visit is recorded, and if any "key" words are spoken over communication devices - even e-mail the events are flagged and recorded. They knew this was coming, they knew who, they just weren't sure where, well hell - all they had to do was follow the guys...

Make intelligience actually work and we won't have a problem...

 

[Spiderman]

Hindsight is all 20-20, and maybe in 50 years or however long it takes to de-classify documents we'll find out for sure, but I haven't seen anything that specifically links the 17 guys to flying planes into buildings that intelligence knew beforehand. You have "the big day is coming/tomorrow/whatever", and guys learning to fly but not take off or land, but nothing that states "September 11 is when we (the 17 guys) will hijack planes and fly them into the WTC and targets in DC".

That I know of.