Is this cheating?

[Spiderman]

Wow, the hot thread of the weekend...

I would have to know more about her personality in general and how she joined your group, but pretty much agree with Chaos Turtle and SeFRo. I think it was dishonest AND bad manners (and her reply confirms it), but if she's new and this has never come up with the older members, then it's a learning experience and a chance to clarify with the group what should be done (although if the group is split, then who knows how that will turn out).

 

[Chaos Turtle]

"I'd rather be a live thief than a dead loser."
--Isty's "friend"

That doesn't even make sense. Is the girl in question of low intelligence? Only wondering, since that might explain her behavior.

Anyway, I still think this has more to do with poor manners than anything else. It seems like the other members of your group are divided similarly with regard to cheating/bad sportsmanship. Again, I think that the best thing to do is make your feelings clear and move on. If you simply can't stand the thought of playing with this person again, don't.

 

[Melkor]

Among my own group, not that we play much anymore, this wouldn't really be considered cheating, as its considered to be our own responsibility to pay attention and know the rules, but it would certainly be considered bad form if it were done maliciously, meaning, that you did it soley to improve your own chances of winning. If on the other hand the motivation was good natured ribbing and the pricking of a possibly inflated ego, then I would say it was all in good fun. I would not want this to become common behavior though, and I don't think it ever would as the competitive nature of my group is such that no one would generally want a win like that. In summary, such actions within a casual sphere really rest upon your own determination of the other persons motivations. For instance, within my group, there is a player who will at times blatantly cheat (i.e. look at the top cards of the deck, draw more cards), however, I know that this person is only doing it because he has a hyperactive personality and is getting bored with the time is takes for some of the more methodical players. So, we respond with jokes and increased vigilence. Specifically as it regards your case, from the persons comments that you have transcribed and your own declarations, it would seem that her silence was not in the spirit of fostering a fun casual environment, and thus would be considered bad sportsmanship.

 

[Gizmo]

I'm obviously in the minority here... you just all seem to take casual play a little more seriously than the people I play casually against.

Horses for courses, I guess.

 

[Ferret]

I just consider it bad form. When you're in a casual game, mistakes will be made. If at the end of the game you discover that what happened was wrong, you deal with it. However, when someone makes a mistake and someone doesn't speak up, it helps them win the game and they were quite well aware of it, it is definitely a form of cheating and could cause some "bad vibes" w/ the group.

If someone was new to my group and pulled a stunt like that I'd probably warn them that it wasn't cool and if they tried anything like that on purpose again, I'd ask them to leave the group (and I'm sure that everyone in the group would as well).

-Ferret

"It's one thing to get a cheap win, but a dishonest win just doesn't fly w/ the kind of people I play w/"

 

[mythosx]

well isty, I think you would be in the right. If convention stands at proper rules help, then you should confront her about it.

 

[Killer Joe]

An honest person would've said something but hey, thet's HER call and now she'll pay for it as I'm sure you won't be the only one in the group who may question her ethics in the future.

 

[HOUTS]

Wow,

It is funny to see where you put the blame.

Maybe YOU should pay attention.

Secondly, it is a freaking game. And a casual one at that.

When things like this happen in our little casual games, we blame the person for NOT paying attention.

"Oh, you shouldn't have died? Pfttt, next time read your card"

Thirdly, cheating is based on intention. Was her intention to have you die based off your inability to read a card? If she recognized it, and maybe it was after you put the card away, why is she obligated to point out something that keeps YOU alive, and not her.

Should you scold her? Sure...and then get over it.

Wow, are all of you casual players here so intense over such minor infractions? I could only imagine how you are with your own friends. Your actions in the games transcend over to your real life problems.

Do you usually handle them this way?

HOUTS

 

[Istanbul]

Blah blah troll blah blah flame blah.

Move on, HOUTS. This isn't the forum for you. I care about ALMOST everyone's opinion this topic; I consider your opinion on anything invalid, so you're an exception.

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by HOUTS
Wow, are all of you casual players here so intense over such minor infractions? I could only imagine how you are with your own friends. Your actions in the games transcend over to your real life problems.

Do you usually handle them this way?

Yeah, I can just feel the "intensity." And what makes you think that all of our actions in games "transcend over" to our real life problems?

 

[Notepad]

Oversoul, I actually somewhat agree with the first part of what you quoted from Houts there. On first glance, it really does seem like an intense reaction to a minor thing. A big bit of rules lawyering, in fact.

I don't remain on such a finding, though...

Houts, the thing is this doesn't really just represent one little bit of shadiness. It could, yes, but more likely than not, the others are right in that this gal is cut-throat in her play style. It is a problem of a larger scale than it first appears, and that's what everyone is getting at.

Though, yeah, rules knowledge by both involved would certainly have helped. But, you can't know every card all the time. Hell, everyone makes mistakes with their own decks. Happens to the best of us.

 

[HOUTS]

When I was remarking on how most people, the regulars, handle stuff on here with such intensity, I was regarding OTHER circumstances I've seen. This isn't the first time I've seen drama over such a small problem.

" It is a problem of a larger scale than it first appears, and that's what everyone is getting at."

Wow, big problem huh?

Yeah...um, big scale here.

One person didn't know what the card did. Another person noticed, and didn't say something because he/she didn't realize right away, or thought it was appropiate since the person couldn't read his/her own card.

Oh no....

*runs with arms flaying*

HOUTS

 

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by HOUTS
One person didn't know what the card did. Another person noticed, and didn't say something because he/she didn't realize right away, or thought it was appropiate since the person couldn't read his/her own card.

Nope. We already established that she realized it right away and it was for "personal gain" (as in one less opponent).

 

[Notepad]

Originally posted by HOUTS
One person didn't know what the card did. Another person noticed, and didn't say something because he/she didn't realize right away, or thought it was appropiate since the person couldn't read his/her own card.

Oh no....

*runs with arms flaying*

HOUTS

As Spidey pointed out, Isty already talked with her and she admitted knowing what was going on. She purposely refrained from assisting with rules help in the situation, to better herself.

The problem this represents is that she's cut-throat. Granted, this isn't too big a problem in most circles. However, it looks like with Isty's group you have a bunch of players who like to keep things honorable. To such a group it is clear how big a problem if someone pretty much acted without pristine honor in a situation.

What this tiny incident could represent is that the group has a person within it that could unravel the spirit in which they play, and make for uncomfortable play gatherings.

Yes, very black and white, indeed. I doubt any play group I've been in would care very much, but you have to take other group's attitudes into consideration.

You can always choose not to play with certain groups. And they can always choose to ban you from their play sessions. Its all a matter of respecting each other's play styles.

In this case, someone's play style looked to be disrespectful to that of the group.

 

[HOUTS]

As Spidey pointed out, Isty already talked with her and she admitted knowing what was going on. She purposely refrained from assisting with rules help in the situation, to better herself.

The problem this represents is that she's cut-throat. Granted, this isn't too big a problem in most circles. However, it looks like with Isty's group you have a bunch of players who like to keep things honorable. To such a group it is clear how big a problem if someone pretty much acted without pristine honor in a situation.

What this tiny incident could represent is that the group has a person within it that could unravel the spirit in which they play, and make for uncomfortable play gatherings.

Yes, very black and white, indeed. I doubt any play group I've been in would care very much, but you have to take other group's attitudes into consideration.

You can always choose not to play with certain groups. And they can always choose to ban you from their play sessions. Its all a matter of respecting each other's play styles.

In this case, someone's play style looked to be disrespectful to that of the group. "

Actually there wasn't any real clarification.Merely "I think"

Secondly, it isn't a big deal.

What I find amazing is all the writing over a small incident. Because if you felt it wasn't a big deal, you'd of taken care of it. You wouldn't have to ask us. However, I feel you wanted some justification for childish behavior-a common occurying reaction going on here...at casual players

HOUTS

 

[Notepad]

Yeah, it really is an issue based on one's own personal feelings. There really isn't a right or wrong here.

-It can be something to ignore.
-It can be something to be offended by and kick someone out of one's group.
-It can be anything in the spectrum between such polar reactions.

Probably enough said. From the beginning, this has really just been an "I think it was/wasn't cheating..." thread.

As for why Isty posted it, who knows? Maybe he did want justification and/or bragging rights. Then again, maybe he wanted to raise the issue like so many places/writers do, by using real life examples.

You yourself once used an example of potential wrongdoing in one of your articles here, Houts, if I remember correctly.

-Sefro, who says screw battling each other right now; we need to kill the Yugiohs *first*!

 

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by HOUTS
Actually there wasn't any real clarification.Merely "I think"

There was clarification. She said "I'd rather be a live thief than a dead loser." Isty used "I think" for his conjecture, but c'mon, does anyone seriously doubt what that means?

However,

Originally posted by SeFRo
However, it looks like with Isty's group you have a bunch of players who like to keep things honorable.

It also appears that Isty's group is "evenly split on this count [issue]". So there's not a clear-cut concensus. Apparently, Gizmo and HOUTS would fall in the agreeing with the girl's position half of the group.

And that's probably why Isty posted it to the forums - since it was 50-50 in his group, it appears he wanted some outside opinions from people who don't play in his group.

 

[Istanbul]

That pretty much sums it up. I have this thing about being able to see multiple viewpoints at once, even ones I don't necessarily want to see, so I felt some outside perspective would help me gain some clarity.

That being said, I pretty much learned from the poll that I was right in my leanings; it was dishonest, bordering in cheating.