Hate Drafting

[Killer Joe]

I love playing tournament Magic, it’s just too bad that I suck at it. My rating is like 1551 in Limited. I do, however, have a question about Etiquette & Protocol concerning tourney Magic play strategies.

I was drafting several weeks ago and, in our draft, was a former pro tour guy (Disclaimer-Who, btw, is a very nice guy). Anyway we’re drafting OLS and he’s sitting next to me (left side) and I open my first pack and wah-lah! A Lightning Rift is before me. I have full intentions on drafting UW Soldiers but I know that he has had great success with UR when drafting with us. So I pluck the Rift from the pack and made the mistake of announcing, out loud, what I drafted. I KNOW this is wrong, both hate drafting AND opening my big mouth. This is NOT the worst of it.

Every ‘bomb’ that was red I plucked, because Shock was my next pick. By now any normal person would be thinking that red/X ought to be what my colors were for this draft, but Nooooooooooooo, I still have intentions on drafting UW Soldiers. By the last pack (Scourge), I had an okay deck of UW Soldiers but I had some good burn too. I did not play red in the deck and went on to build my UW Soldier deck right there on the main table for everyone to see. And it was evident that I hate drafted against the guy to my left. Yes, I’m a bad player. So what.

Bad decision? YUP! He was all bent and I felt the need to say something to smooth it over. I asked him about how people on the pro-tour know each other’s colors for drafting and if it was true that hate drafting was looked upon badly. He mentioned that ‘yes’ hate drafting is NOT looked upon as being favorable. But I said that we’re not here on the pro tour and little guys like us should not be held to the same standards of Etiquette & Protocol as pro tour players. I don’t remember his reply but it was not in favor of what I did.

Know this, though. There are people at the shop who have been known in the past to yield good cards to the better players in hopes of getting respect from them and perhaps gain favors such as deck building tips and the like. I hate this approach, but I know sometimes you have to play the political game. OINK!

I was wrong for hate drafting, not because it’s the wrong thing to do, but because it’s really not a beneficial tactic in my drafting strategies.

Do you think it’s wrong to “hate draft”?

~Mark

 

[train]

Please explain the hate-draft vs. board-hate difference...

You're allowed to hat - and no matter what - if the person is good enough - they can draft what's remaining and still build a winning deck...

Same a being a rare-hoar!...

Hate drafting is not something to worry yourself about, and as for pros... hate drafting goes on there also - but they call it drafting "defensively"... As in - it's not my colors - but it's too good to let someone have, so no one gets to play with it...

 

[rkoelsch]

I don't hate draft. I have a hard enough time concentrating on my deck. I take my colors then the next best card in case I switch.

 

[Apollo]

There's nothing wrong with taking a card to screw the person next to you. After all, the purpose is to win, and if you taking the card makes their deck worse, you've improved your chances of winning.

Of course, you should have just played red...

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

Draft the best card for your deck first. But, if there's nothing to help you, take away a card that can harm you. Perfectly legal, and, in my opinion, perfectly ethical.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Mr. P is soundly correct in this sense.

When i play, I always pick out the stuff I would use, but when I get a pack where I have nothing to use out of it, I usually take whatever is most harmful to me.

But then again, the last person usually gets stuck with Dripping Dead...

 

[EricBess]

train - I disagree with your statement that "...if they are good enough, they will still get a good deck..." If I intentionally draft all of the best cards, regardless of what color they are, the person I am passing to will have less quality cards and will end up having to play a lot of sub-optimal cards. Granted, their deck will be incredibly better than mine, but if I'm willing to sacrifice myself to completely mess up the person to my left, than they will be at a severe disadvantage.

Apollo - Just remember, what goes around, comes around. If I have the option of taking a harmless card or one that the person on my left wants, I will typically take the harmless card. If the other card is a bomb, than that is another story, especially if that bomb will destroy my deck. So, do all the hate you want once there is no chance that the person sitting next to you will not be able to return the favor.

Others - I have to agree with those that say, "if there is nothing you want, take the card that hurts you the most." No one can fault you for that, so you don't make enemies of your neighbors.

I've seen pros draft, and I rarely see someone get upset about what another player has drafted. And I've rarely seen a player spite draft because of an earlier draft at that level. But it does happen, and it happens a LOT at qualifiers and more casual tournaments.

Note that booster draft is a bit different, but you do need to make sure you are passing a clear signal of what you want the person on your left to take color wise or you are likely to be fighting for picks pack 2.

 

[Spiderman]

Unfortunately, I have no real opinion based on play because I've never really "drafted" at a competitive level.

But from what I've seen, read, and observed, Mr. P's opinion makes a lot of sense to me...

 

[Notepad]

Its all part of tournament drafting, man. Its called forcing colors and typical strategy nowadays. Of course, "showing" is also strategy, and the Sideboard, Star City and Brainburst all have articles about drafting if you are so inclined to improve your madd leet skillz.

 

[train]

Eric - as you know - drafting, and drafting well is only the first part of winning a draft tourney... the second and thrid parts are building and playing... If someone knows their being hate-drafted against, they can still pick the best remaining card(for their colors) and build solid decks... They may even change colors... Then it all comes down to the draw, and the play...

Last I drafted - the first 4 cards I picked were red/black, then my "left" noticed this and hit me with hate drafts... Needless to say - I ran a mono-green deck and took second... Of course - in green, all you do is lay the creatures on the table and smash...

 

[Istanbul]

Always build your deck first.

EXCEPTION #1: If there's some sick bomb that's not in your colors that'll wreck you, take it. Better you than your opponent.

EXCEPTION #2: If there's nothing left in your colors, or just crap left in your colors (no thanks, you can have that Skirk Prospector), it is a good idea to take the card that could do you the most harm.

 

[EricBess]

One thing I wasn't very clear on - my comments were specifically aimed at Rochester Draft, where your opponent sees what you are taking and where they are coming back from that opponent more often.

Booster Draft allows more "hate drafting" as you say because you don't have to be cooperative as much because your neighbor won't know it is you doing the hate.

train - I agree completely. I wouldn't necessarily call it "hate", though if they decide to go into your colors. I would say that if they passed you an incredible card or two in a certain color and then started drafting that color, than they are not paying attention to what they are doing. But, I've also switched colors before and been very successful. When I draft, I try to send a clear signal of what color I'm interested in, but at the same time, I try to pay attention to which really good cards I'm sending and, if I need to switch colors, I avoid that one unless I'm getting very obvious signals to take it.

But you are correct, adapting your draft based on what is coming is part of the game. I wouldn't consider that "hate" at all.

On the other hand, I get the impression that the original post was something entirely different. If all I did all draft was take the best card from every pack, I would probably be able to cut every color pretty hard. Not to the point where I'm not passing anything playable, but to the point where I still put the next player at a significant disadvantage, regardless of what color they are in. That's more what I was referring to. Of course, I end up with a pile of unplayable cards, myself.

Note that this is different than rare drafting since the rare isn't always the most powerful card in the pack.

And my philosophy is right in line with Mr_P and Istanbul.

 

[train]

Eric - It hit me after posting you may be talking about rochester...

I was speaking on booster...

Rochester I haven't playe dmuch - but have to know how to run one as a judge...

 

[Nightstalkers]

Rochester style... I'll have to spruce up my memory abit about the various styles of gameplay again.

Its this darned memory again, I have a little black box which interprets any language for me, but I can't learn a darned one myself.

 

[Apollo]

So I pluck the Rift from the pack and made the mistake of announcing, out loud, what I drafted.

I took this to mean that he was playing booster draft--otherwise, he wouldn't have to announce it out loud for it to be evident.

 

[Killer Joe]

Since I posted this thread I've come to the conclusion that I will not be subservient to better players, but also, I will NOT intentionally pass bombs to anyone!

I should've played red/white instead of u/w.

I like Isty's method and will stick with that for now.

Thanks All!

~Mark

 

[train]

All I can say, is that according to the poll - no one said it was bad...

 

[Nightstalkers]

It really is not.


Here ya go, if some shop would play a draft, but place in one really good card from whenever set(lets say... Swords to Plowshares) to play legally in the game, you'd have the first person pick it up just because of the power in that card.


Hmm.... that reminds me to try that style now...