Harbinger of Night

Discussion in 'Single Card Strategies' started by Spiderman, Aug 15, 2002.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    How can you keep this guy alive to make use of him?
  2. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    You can use something that continually makes him bigger - like Dragon Blood. That is a lot of counters on him though

    Endoskeleton gives him +0/+3 which keeps him alive another 3 turns.

    And I'd have to check to see if the timing works, but during your upkeep I believe you can put his trigger (ability?) on the stack and then bounce him with Eratic Portal before he gives himself 1 last counter.
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hmm, I guess the bouncing idea works the best, although I wish there was a way of moving -1/-1 counters :)
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I've been looking through the comprehensive rules and can't find anything to say you can't remove it from the game to lose the counters, but I'll have to keep looking to be sure.

    So far 217.5c seems to allow this to happen, but I can't find anything that says the counters"will fall off". All I can say is that permanents can only exist in the in-play zone.

    That means enchant creature cards on the Harbinger should fall off also - since it is no longer a creature.

    This is different from the phased-out zone - phased-out permanents remember their characteristics.

    If this is the case, something like liberate might work...

    Or as Mike said you could bounce after it has put 2 counters on everything.
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm pretty sure phasing it out will cause it to keep the counters, but removing from game might not. In that case, I could do some hokey things with those spells (like Faceless Butcher it or something). If it works, that's another thought...
  6. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    When a permanent phases out, it keeps all of its counters and enchantments and remembers everything about its previous life.

    502.15h Phased-out cards "remember" their past histories and will return to play in the same state. They "remember" any counters they had on them, any choices made when they first came into play, and whether they were tapped or untapped when they left play. They also "remember" who controlled them when they phased out, although they may phase in under the control of a different player if a control effect with limited duration has expired.
    Example: Diseased Vermin reads, in part, "At the beginning of your upkeep, Diseased Vermin deals X damage to target opponent previously dealt damage by it, where X is the number of infection counters on it." If Diseased Vermin phases out, it "remembers" how many counters it has and also which opponents it has previously damaged. When it phases back in, it will still be able to target those opponents with its upkeep-triggered ability.

    When a permanent leaves play, it forgets everything about its former existence. It's not explicitly mentioned in the numbered rules, but the catch-all glossary has this:

    Leaves Play
    A permanent leaves play when it moves from the in-play zone to any other zone. See rule 410.10c. If a token leaves play, it ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. If a card leaves play and later returns, it's treated as an entirely new permanent with no "memory" of anything from its former existence. (Phasing is an exception to this; see rule 502.15, "Phasing.")

    EDIT: For Mikey's sake, you can definitely put his triggered ability on the stack and then respond by bouncing him with the Portal or whatever. The ability will resolve as normal and put -1/-1 counters on whatever creatures are in play.

    (- Steve -)
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I figured leaving play somehow would do this... instead of bouncing and re-casting - I was trying to find something like Brushhopper's ability - in came Liberate.

    Hope all this rules jargon helps Spidey.
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It helps me, I just gotta figure out how to use it... I only have one of him and just thought he'd be interesting to throw in a deck :)
  9. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I used to play with him a long time ago.

    All the sudden I'm drawing a blank, which will likely subside moments after hitting submit, but the black ench which gives +1/+1 for all creatures going to the gy would be good. Yeah, creature ench's aren't good, but he was a target anyways.

    Only having one of them will kind of corrupt the idea of really working with him, but a reanimator deck would be good, you could get him or his victims back.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Would that be Sadistic Glee? That's the only one I can think of at the moment... and that's a good idea too :)
  11. NorrYtt Casual Green Mage

    Unglued's Giant Fan. Move those -1/-1 counters to your other creatures and they become +1/+1 counters. You can keep two Harbringers alive this way :D
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I have zero Unglued cards... :)
  13. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It's amazing how beakable magic becomes when unglued is involved...

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