Genju of the Fields: Just How Good Is It?

Discussion in 'Single Card Strategies' started by orgg, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. orgg Administrator

    Well, I leaked some 'tech to someone last Friday, and they went ape saying how it didn't work.

    It's as of today on as their big issue. I say it's still not as effective as the Flying genju...

    ...but I havn't tested it in Chaos or other more casual formats, yet.

    Some have compared it to Exhalted Angel, a comparison that is a bit... undercooked, for sure.

    For those of you who don't want to take a look at SCG, here's the trick:

    The card's ability makes a land a 2/5 creature each time it activates. Each resolved activation reverts the P/T to 2/5 and gives it an ability.

    However, the ability does not dissappear if activated multiple times-- the text "gain life equal to the amount this damages" appears multiple times on the affected card.

    This means it can deal two damage and if pumpped five times, give five triggers that give two life each.

    How good is it, really?
  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    Good, too good, or not...

    ...I doubt WotC wanted the card to work like this, unless I'm missing something.
  3. orgg Administrator

    If you read between the lines of the Genju Preview article they had a while ago, they said the white Genju turned out to be a LOT better.

    If the ability didn't stack, the white genju would be the second-to-last Genju in order of power, right above the black one.
  4. jorael Craptacular!

    Nice situational ability to gain some extra life if you have nothing better to do with your mana. Nor broken, no need to fix it (if it was unintentional in the first place....). It gets even less broken if the "tech" is widely known and opponents will be prepared for it.

    You still need to enter the red zone (combat) for this to work, and as Wizards tries to place more emphasis on combat. Genju of the Fields helps with that too. Yay!
  5. Limited Yes, but we won't care

    Will it not become a deterrent for combat; if someone has a Genju of the Fields and plenty of mana, that one blocker can gain him enough life to negate damage from multiple attackers..

    I think it'll be a reason to play more enchantment removal, after artifact-removal had become a must-play. That's why the Genju's go back to the hand if the land is destroyed, but not when themselves hit the graveyard..

  6. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I think the little glitch makes it a better card, but I'm still not completely impressed. I don't bother with formats, so I look at Genju of the fields with the entire cardpool in mind. I think of Exalted Angel, Armadillo Cloak, Wellwisher, and the Genju isn't really that big of a deal. I'm sure there are other life gaining cards, but those three come to mind.
  7. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Powerful, yet limited in the extent that you'll need 3 lands (or the ability to create the 2 mana handily) to keep the thing charged.
  8. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Seems like it can be a disgustingly annoying card in the old U/W control deck. It's kind of like Stalking Stones on crack.

    U/W control loves sleeping creatures (since they slip around WOG's) and it likes heavy lifegain. Oy.
  9. Killer Joe Active Member

    Okay,slowly walk me through this again:
    1) I have a plains card enchanted with Genju ot Fields
    2) I use two mana to activate it and the plains card now becomes a 2/5 creature and has the triggered ability "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain life equal to that damage."
    3) I attack with it (let's assume that the plains card had been in play for a turn)
    4) After damage goes to the stack but before it resolves I activate Genju's ability, let's say two more times, using 4 mana.
    5) Each of those times the plains card is reset as a 2/5 creature with the 'triggered ability' aforementioned.

    Am I right so far?

    6) Now there are three triggered abilities waiting to go off when the condition is met
    7)The plains card deals it's damage (even though the resetting of it has changed it from the original 2/5 creature that dealt the damage) and each triggered ability goes off one-at-a-time.

    Did I get this Right?

    Please help me to figure out a more simplistic way of conveying this info to any "Nay-sayers" I may encounter. And correct me if I got any of this wrong.

    Thanks for your help!
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Mostly, except I think at #5, it's reset to a 2/5 creature BUT the triggered ability is "added" to the card. So after the first activation it looks like:

    Basic Land - Plains
    Trigger #1

    After second and third activation, it looks like

    Basic Land - Plains
    Trigger #1
    Trigger #2
    Trigger #3

    The triggered ability keeps getting added to the "rules text" of the card.

    I guess that's how it can be interpreted, but sounds fishy to me. The intent was more than likely for the whole card to get reset - in other words, if another card said "Plains becomes a 1/1 creature with "whenever it deals damage, bounce target creature"", the Genju would override it, it wouldn't stack the gain life trigger with the bounce trigger. But if WOTC wanted to fix it, they'd probably have to errata it to explicitly state so. I imagine they're just going to see how far people can go with it the way it is right now.
  11. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Sorry KJ, I'm not nearly enough of a rules guru to give you the exact definition, but you've got the jist of it. Each activation provides another instance of the ability. All the Genju's do, but in this case the ability happens to be cumulative; compared to the Realm's Trample or Falls' Flying which are not cumulative.

    I do think it is a flawed loop-hole in the rules, and wouldn't mind so much if it were errata'ed. Not because the card really worries me, just because I'm not a huge fan of cards working in ways they shouldn't because of loop-holes. Yeah I know, goes against the whole Waylay-CPA foundation.
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You shouldn't be bothered by the contradiction. Most of the people who were worried about it and founded the CPA have been long absent....
  13. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I don't think its that big of a deal. Its fairly mana-intensive by itself, and fairly card intensive if you want to try to break this ability by pumping the Genju's power.

    Compare it to, for example, Wellwisher with 6 other elves. 7 life a turn. Play another Wellwisher and you're looking at 16 life a turn. And aside from playing the cards, no mana required.

    Sure, it wasn't intentional, but it doesn't seem like its going to break anything, and since it only makes a somewhat good card slightly better, just go on with the game.
  14. Killer Joe Active Member

    Now, how about combo-ing it with that black enchantment that gives you black mana during your main phase for each counter on it (I think it accumulates, too). :rolleyes:
  15. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Its just a personal pet-peeve I have with the game. Magic is about breaking its own rules which is great, but many mechanics are intended to be broken. When a card operates in a manner it was never intended for via a rules loop-hole, it dogs me a bit. I have similar beef with our legal system.
  16. orgg Administrator

    I don't belive this WAS NOT intentional. The card as a 'one shot' was fairly weak compared to all the other Genju other than the black one. Now it's in line with the blue and green one, and a bit better than the red.

    The rules have worked this way for a long time. Faerie Conclave followed by Living Lands comes to mind. The rule just hasn't been put onto a singlular card until now.

    Here's the quote:

    A 2/5 isn't much spicier than a 0/4. Instead of unplayable, it's a twenty third card. EVEN AS IS, it's not a top draft pick-- mabe third pick, but probably not first unless you're into white and it's the strongest card (obviously). Note the "Wow?" with the inquisitive mark. That's the key. They wern't sure if a stream of life per turn was that good. With their testing, they proved that it wasn't overpowered compared to other similar things.

    I agree. No loophole used to break the card-- the rules were made to MAKE a good card.
  17. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    It has implications for Genju Of The Realm as well. You can make Genju of The Realm fly with the blue Genju, pump with the Black Genju, spirit link with the White Genju... etc etc.

    You just activate the weak Genju first, so that the Genju Of The Realm's p/t ability overrides the weaker one.

    Want an 8/12 trampling, double-spirit linked guy?
  18. orgg Administrator

    Not if I have to dedicate a five-color deck and six mana to it. :)

    Also, the 'weak' Genjus only can be played on the appropriate land. To have the Blue, Black, and White genju on a land, it'd have to be a Taiga with a Strands of Night(or whatever the "B: all lands are swamps in addition to their type" enchantment is...).

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