First cards from Betrayers of Kamigawa revealed

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Chaos Turtle, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    G1 - for two 1/1 snakes, is kind of cheap - with it's recursion ability...

    Definitely a strong limited card to say the least...
  2. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    It'd be cute if you could find a way to take advantage of it...

    Just saying...
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Oops sorry. My bad. The cost for the snakemaker is {2}{G}.

    I'll update my previous post.
  4. Killer Joe Active Member

    Will someone go 'step-by-step' with the Ninja of the Deep Hours?

    Declare attackers
    <stuff happens>
    Declare blockers
    <stuff happens>
  5. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order: beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat. The declare blockers and combat damage steps are skipped if no creatures are declared as attackers (see Rule 308.4). There are two combat damage steps if any attacking or blocking creature has first strike

    I kinda learned how to play using the old Magic: The Gathering card game thingie for PC, so this is how I was kinda "taught"

    beginning of combat
    Basically, play activated abilities and junk (like tap an opponents creature, turn mishra's factory into an assembly worker, etc.)

    declare attackers
    The attacking player declares the attackers he/she wishes to send after ya. Can play spells/abilities during this phase too.

    declare blockers
    Choose the blockers that are going to be going out there... Can use spells/abilities during this time.

    combat damage
    Assign damage to players, creatures, etc. Can play abilities and spells to resolve damage.

    end of combat
    Cleanup. Basically resolve everything that might end at this point and make sure everything is dumped into their respective bins.
  6. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Declare intent to attack...
    (no responses...)
    Declare attackers...
    (maybe responses, triggers)
    Declare blockers
    ( maybe responses, triggers...)
    U1, Ninjitsu replaces a blocked critter with the now unblocked ninja...
    -The ninja is unblocked so it deals damage to the defending palyer and you end up drawing a card...
    -the blocking critter that would have dealt damage to the "bounced' critter instead deals no damage...

    Continue with combat...
  7. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Ninjutsu can be used at any point in the combat phase, so long as the creature is not being blocked, for different effects and situations.

    Before blockers are declared - if your opponent plays an unexpected instant-speed creature you might choose to return the creature you had attacked with and replace it with the Ninja.

    After blockers are declared - this is the most obvious use of the Ninjutsu.

    After First Strike damage has resolved - attack with a first strike creatureand resolve their damage, then Ninjustsu that creature and resolve a second batch of non-first strike damage.
    ***^^^ CUNNING TRICKERY ^^^ ***

    And also any time that an unblocked creature becomes the target of an unwelcome spell (before or after blockers are declared) you can Ninjutsu in response to remove the target and fizzle the spell.

    Those tricks listed above make me feel that, like Morph, this is going to be a Limited format mechanic.
  8. NorrYtt Casual Green Mage

    Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug doesn't seem so far-fetched now.

    The Ninja theme is pretty good, since ninjas are supposed to be fast and attack you from behind without warning. Dropping creatures into play where they are already attacking is very, very fast flavorfully. Also, ninjas bouncing in and out of play cutting up your life total seems very fitting.

    There's also lots of tension created between Bushido and Ninjutsu. Bushido discourages blocking while Ninjutsu encourages blocking.

    You also can't counterspell a ninjutsu'd creature because it's an ability, not playing a spell.

    You should not be worried that Ninjutsu is like Madness or Affinity. These spells were simply undercosted and I feel that R&D has learned their lesson. Also, Ninjutsu requires an unblocked creature, which is considerably different than a Wild Mongrel, Aquamoeba, or Careful Study (extremely cheap madness enablers).

    Maybe Ninjutsu will make good use of guys like Ornitopher and Birds of Paradise.
  9. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Imagine you have an Ornithopter in play and a Ninja of the Deep Hours in-hand. I have a tapped Swamp and nothing useful (to keep it simple).

    You declare the beginning of your Combat Phase.
    I will skip over irrelevant sections of the steps, but be aware that there are several opportunities to play instants therein.

    Beginning of Combat step:
    We both pass.

    Declare attackers step: you declare your Ornithopter as an attacker (cuz u r teh l33t 1)

    Declare blockers step: I declare nothing (not so l33t)
    You announce Ninja of the Deep Hours' ability*, pay the 1U, return Ornithopter to your hand, then put the ninja into play, tapped and attacking.

    Combat Damage: I take 2, you draw a card.

    Important note: There seems to be widespread misunderstanding about what is an "unblocked creature." While it might make sense that a creature is "unblocked" pretty much all the time, except when something is blocking it, this is not the case in Magic. A creature is unblocked only if it is attacking and if the game is in the Declare Blockers step, after blockers have been declared, and no creature or effect is blocking it.

    *(The general assumption is that this ability will use the stack, due to the wording of the reminder text. This would allow for instants to be used after the creature is returned -- since that's a cost -- but before the Ninja comes into play. It is possible though that this ability will not use the stack -- like "morph." The reasoning being that the card does not tell you to reveal the ninja when you play the ablility, which would have you returning cards to your hand and playing instants while awaiting the resolution of the mysterious unknown [to the other player] ability you've played. Obviously, the specifics of this will be addressed by the official rules for the "ninjutsu" ability, which we do not yet have.)
  10. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    I wonder if people will figure out a way to abuse the fact that bouncing the attacker is part of the cost, not part of the effect...meaning that you can't respond to it by Shocking the creature to be bounced or anything.

    Yeah...I thought R&D had learned their lesson from free spells in Urza Block, then Madness came out.
    Then I thought R&D had learned their lesson from undercosted Madness spells, and Affinity came out.

    I no longer have any faith in the ability of R&D to learn lessons.

    In particular, if you can muster a first-turn creature, the Ninja reads:
    Ninja of the Deep Hours (1U)
    Creature - Human Ninja
    Whenever Ninja of the Deep Hours deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card.

    That's pretty crazy.
  11. DarthFerret Evil Sith Weasel

    Ok, the ability, I think, might be a little broken if it is abused in later card releases. If it had another drawback, like sacrifice this creature at end of turn , it might not be too bad.

    Other than that, I really do not care for the whole basis of the set in general. Not sure I like an entire set centered around the Oriental genre. Too much like L5R or other various "Japanese" based CCG's. I suppose it was due, but still, I am not totally thirlled with the idea.
  12. Reverend Love New Member

    I'm willing to be we'll see 2-3 quality, possibly broke ninja cards. The rest with be utter jank. Like paying

    RR4 for a 3/3 doublestriker or something.
  13. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    What I thought from the beginning...

    I swear, if they bring back flanking or banding... I'll yell "L5R" at the top of my lungs.
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You ought to be demoted a judge level train... ;)

    I kinda agree; it seems weird for a "fantasy" game to have an Oriental flavor, but maybe that's because we're "Westerners". Maybe this IS fantasy for Orientals :)
  15. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Are you saying your interpretation of the word "Fantasy" means only Eurocentric tales, characters and places? To be more specific, medeival European stuff?

    Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, Homelands, Alliances, Tempest, Stronhold, Exodus, Urza Saga, Legacy, Destiny, Odyssey, Torment, Judgment, Onslaught, Legions, Scourge, Mirrodin, Darksteel, Fifth Dawn = Your cup of tea, and all is fine.

    Arabian Nights = Arabia, obviously
    Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight = African
    Mercadian Masques, Nemesis, Prophecy = Euro Rennaisance (sp?)
    Invasion, Planeshift, Apoc = Apocalyptic, elements of tech

    So all these should have sparked a big crisis for players who thought fantasy was European medieval in nature.

    Why the hardship over Kamigawa being Japanese? You want to see some really imaginative fiction? Go find some quality Japanese anime. No, not garbage like Dragonball Z. I mean the awesome stuff like Hayao Miyazaki's films. Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke come to mind.

    Not to mention that a lot of the stuff we know to be part of "fantasy" necromancy comes from Africa. Hell, the word "zombie" is African.

    Oh, and the angels and hell and holiness and demons and stuff comes from Hebrew, mainly Biblical sources. So, um, sorry Europeans. Your fantasy is limited to vampires and dwarves and werewolves and snow and junk like that.

    Oh, and since this rant has gone on so long...I totally agree with Isty that this Ninja mechanic just screams "MORE ABUSIVE THAN A DRUNK REDNECK WHO FOUND HIS WIFE HITTING ON ANOTHER GUY!" Yeah...
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm just saying that honestly, from what I'm gathering on this site at least, most people are white who have read mostly European-based fantasy so another culture seems "strange". Not a lot were around when Arabian Nights was released (and it was the first expansion after all so Magic was all new; people were more concerned about getting the cards period), Mirage may have had some African elements but didn't take it's "culture" like CHK is doing (with terms like "ninjitsu" or "bushido"; just phasing and flanking) and the others are just generic without having a specific culture in mind. CHK is the first in a long time to be so deep in the culture that's different.

    I'm not saying it's bad; on the contrary, I think it's great. What I am saying is that it takes a little to adjust to such blatant unfamiliar terminology as CHK is giving.
  17. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    It's such a common misconception that the label of "fantasy" should only be applied to that which is Tolkienesque.

    Let your minds breathe a little, people.
  18. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    ha ha, it would be kinda funny to have a set with elves, dwarves, hobbits, and orcs...


    you'd have lord ofthe rings fans buying the stuff up just because of what it implies.
  19. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Getting back on topic (and on topic to a rant I had in another thread), isn't it just so typical for WotC to come out w/ a fancy new mechanic and which colour gets to sample it first? Blue? Or does it?

    So far, we've only seen the blue one - but, lots of colours got to use Bushido...let's just hope that WotC doesn't drop the ball on us again and only give Ninjitsu to Blue...


    "I can imagine some nifty effects for the other four colours..."
  20. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    hmmm....Besides it being a relative form of morph for creatures. I see ninjitsu being used for quasi combat tricks. It sort of negates have of the combat spells that white can play and its built straight into the card. Very interesting.

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