Feeble attempts.

G

Griffith_se

Guest
I just want this to deal 20 as quickly as possible
(Beatdown).

I'm one of those people that tries real hard, but
just does-not-get-it.

Please give detailed critique, a lesson on deck
building if you will. I chose simple cards to make
it easier.

I don't want to come off as a whiner, I just really
want to understand what makes a good deck.

So... how about it, can You help Me out?

Please be honest, But not brutally honest.

Thanks for Your time and effort.

Lets just say format is T2.
//NAME: Untitled Deck

//Land
4 City of Brass
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Underground River
12 Island

//Spells
2 Earthquake----\
4 Unsummon------\ These are supposed to
4 Hoodwink--------/ Be board control.
2 Boomerang----/

4 Feast of the Unicorn
4 Parallax Dementia

//creatures
4 Phyrexian Battleflies--> Don't know if this is worth a crap.
4 Cloud Sprite
4 Cloudskate----------\ These maybe to iffy,
4 Indentured Djinn---/ I don't know.

[Edited by Griffith_se on 11-14-00 at 09:37 PM]
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Anyway, here's what I have to say about your deck, Griffith.

Something seems to be "off" in it. I'm just being honest. It has 3 colors, yet you utilize only the Earthquakes from Red; why?

The deck looks like more like a "fun" deck. Since you want to win fast. Hoodwinks simply aren't that great in your deck. It doesn't remove creatures. For a speedy way, I think Snap would be very well in there. It removes creatures while keeping your mana open. Boomerang could stay; it could remove anything.

Now, you have 16 creatures and 8 enchant-creatures.
That's a bit off-balance. You need more creatures to "empower" the 16 creatures; otherwise, there's a great chance of drawing more enchant-creatures than you (really) need.

Your creature base is kind of weak. Since you don't have counter power or card drawing, may I suggest Extravagant Spirit? This 4/4 Flier only costs 4 mana and is basically with "no" drawback; not in your deck anyway. The 4 Indentured Djinn are really bad in your deck. You play them, opponent draws 3 cards, and BOOM, he or she has all the answers for all the problems that you have given him. Without counter power, this Djinn has got to go.

I know I didn't help much; Black is my specialty. I'm sure I offered you "some" advice though; I hope.
 
N

Nyx

Guest
Please give detailed critique, a lesson on deck
building if you will. I choose simple cards to make
it easier.
I won't go into too much detail, but the best way I've ever found to test a deck was to give it to a friend and have him play it against me while I used several different Pre-cons on it (specifically different strategies like Groundbreaker, Migraine, Crusher, Sparkler, and Spectrum; then I test it against Call of the Kor, the nastiest precon ever). I usually learn a lot about how it can handle (or not) the different strategies each deck uses.

Look for cards that he plays which never do anything useful. Is the deck mana hosed often? What do you do that it can't deal with? Ask your buddy what cards he really wished he had in his hand when he was losing.
 
K

krichaiushii

Guest
I don't know if the Battleflies are worth it in a three color deck. At least not four of them. Pumping them up to deal any damage means up to two less mana you have available to generate more threats.

As for Feast of the Unicorn, it costs a bit much. Maybe Maniacal Rage? Yeah, your creature can therefore not block, but the +2/+2 for 1R can be worthwhile -- especially on evasion critters like your fliers.

Instead of Unsummon, why not the Seal version instead? As a permanent, it gives you a one drop, and lets you hold back mana for other things.

Except for a few cards, you really aren't benefitting much from the black element. Perhaps dumping it in favor of more red (both for burn/removal AND beatdown creatures) could work.

Red's haste cards work quite well, especially after blockers have been removed from the board. Skizzik anyone?

While I am not sure if there is a red/blue pain land, the Cities of Brass should work fine in a pinch, and the addition of mountains can work to your advantage. This in turn should smooth out mana problems.

Conversely, you can remain with black, or dump red entirely to take advantage of the mean cards that Invasion provides. Recoil fits your bounce theme well, and Undermine provides both control AND damage. Keeping red in as well allows for Blazing Specter and/or Pyre Zombie. Keep in mind that the last three cards mentioned are a real b**** to get a hold of, minus pulling them from packs.

Staying three color means you might consider a few of the domain cards (and basic lands). Tribal Flames affects both players and creatures, and Exotic Curse is quite useful for pesky regenerators and other nuisances that you don't (or can't!) bounce.

Lastly, the Evil Fish variants floating around could prove to fit your purpose. The Lords of Atlantis make everything big, and the creatures are terribly cheap. Both disruption and removal are ample in this deck format. Splash red for direct damage.

I hope that helps, somewhat.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
You said Type 2, of which I have really no familiarity with.

The only general thing I can really see is be careful with your mana curve, in that if you don't have mana acceleration, don't have a lot of high casting stuff. So you probably can get rid of at least 2 Feast of the Unicorns; they just cost too much to justify 4.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Okay. Cruel to be kind.

1. A 3c deck?
Lets take out the blue. First thing - get rid of it. Blue doesn`t really bring very much to the beatdown feast since it lost Unstable Mutation. The evasion is good, but we can do without that I think, and I`d rather be heavier in red for more direct damage. The difference being that the burn spells are more useful in damaging your opponent if he has no creatures to remove, or if you are topdecking to kill.

2. Monsters
Monsters are good, monsters are our friend. They are also the most important thing in the deck because they will deal 70% fo the damage for us. We are looking for cards that are:
a) cheap (anythig over 3cc should be REALLY fast or REALLY big)
b) big, certainly we want nothing that has power less than it`s casting cost unless it has a really nifty ability. Generally we are looking for cards that break the parity (such as a 3/1 for 2cc). However because we want to be casting spells every turn anything that 'pumps' is going to slow us down really badly.
c) evade. We need at least something that will make your opponents duck and cover. An offense can eaily be blunted by the arrival of a 3/3 groundpounder on your opponent`s side, having some evasion stops that sort of thing getting in the way.

And that`s a problem, because if we look at the creatures available in our colours nothing really applies. Black gets some 2-power Mercenary guys, and I guess red has some dodgy 2-power Goblins, but nothing outstanding. Blue similarly has nothing except Lord Of Atlantis and Cloudskate. So why are we in black then All black gives us that is worth sticking around for is support spells, but unfortunately red spells are also currently support spells (lots of cheap burn, but no really good monsters).

Hmm, rethink.

Let`s use Green. There`s good monsters in green.

4 Llanowar Elf
4 River Boa
4 Elvish Archer
4 Kavu Titan
4 Blastoderm
2 Skizzik

3. Spells
If the spell doesn`t hurt my opponent, I need to have a damn good reason for using it. Fish decks, with their countermagic and their Sleeper`s Robes, just aren`t aggro enough for my liking. I want damage or defense-removal, and I want it now!
We can just add red on top for removal and direct damage

4 Seal Of Fire
4 Scorching Lava
4 Rhystic Lightning
4 Urza`s Rage

+22 Land

There - that` s a very average R/G deck.

YAWN - DULL!

Let`s go back to look at B/R for a bit...
What monsters can we use?

4 Cateran Persuader (2-for-2cc)
4 Mindless Thug (2-for-2cc)
4 Shivan Zombie (2-for-2cc)
4 Kavu Aggressor (3-for-3cc)
4 Blazing Spectre (haste, evasion, disruption)
2 Skizzik (5-for-5cc, haste, evasion)

But all those are roughly 2/2. We need something to give them muscle and hitting power. We don`t want too many of this sort of card, because they are vulnerable to your opponent killing both spells by killing the creature under it, but as the monsters are black we are only really scared of burn, and the enchantment should make it too big to remove. The two best options are Parallax Dementia (+3/+2 for a couple of turns) or Maniacal Rage(+2/+2 cannot block).
As the Rage gives roughly the same bonus, is permanent, and can be used in an emergency to stop an opponent from blocking (I won a PTQ once with precisely that trick), I think it has to be favourite.

4 Maniacal Rage

And that took up 26 slots. Leaving us with 12 for burn spells.

4 Seal Of Fire
4 Shock
4 Rhystic Lightning

Because our deck is so heavy at 2cc spells it is important to use plenty of 1cc stuff here. This allows us to not only cast a spell on the first turn, but more importantly gives us the opportunity to make a 2cc spell AND a Shock on the third turn. Being able to play spells at a faster tempo than your opponent can match is one of the keys to playing a succesful beatdown deck.

4. Calculating the Mana Base
Red spells: 26, of which 2 require RR
Black spells: 16, of which 4 require BB, and they are 2cc as well.
Hmm. This is bad. Can we get rid of the Persuaders because it might be hard to get BB on the second turn? What can we use: Skittish Kavu, Goblin Elite Infantry, Whipstitch Zombie, Hate Weaver, Nakaya Shade...
Hold on a second - Hate Weaver is amazing, surely? Not only is it a 2-for-2cc, but it`s got an excellent ability for this deck. Okay, so we swap the Persuaders for Weavers, and that makes our mana easier.
26R/16B - approx 65/35%. But because both require only 1 of the mana to run, we can afford to balance it a little more because we have no need to see a lot of red mana.
4 Sulfurous Springs go straight in, no-brainers.
2 Urborg Volcano follow, because we don`t have much to do for 1cc, so they won`t hurt our curve too much.
3 Rishadan Port, because we can as our mana base is not too strict.
7 Mountain
6 Swamp


There was that critique detailed enough for you Griffith_Se?
;)

For more basic info I long ago wrote some rough primers on beatdown play:
Beatdown 101
http://members.tripod.co.uk/candiman/strategy2.htm
Card Advantage for Beatdown players
http://members.tripod.co.uk/candiman/strategy1.htm

Good luck!
 
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