Fast Creature-based decks and card drawing

[Multani]

Ever since I've read Gizmo's little lecture on card advantage, Oscar Tan's articles regarding card advantage and the deck, and designing and playing a lot of beatdown and stompy decks, I realized almost all fast tempo decks had a problem. Now, I know most weenies, and stompy decks employ some 20-30 creatures, but think about things this way. In a hand of 7, you're rarely going to draw more than 4 creatures, and that even after 5 turns, you'll be lucky to get more than 9 creatures total. And after your opponent removes, or nullifies, your creatures, you're down to topdecking. Now, my question is, is there a way to build a fast creature deck that has the ability to survive beyond 8 turns, against decks with control or removal?
I mean, I know card-drawing is an essential part of that, but I refuse to believe that every weenie deck needs blue for card-drawing.

 

[Spiderman]

I agree additional card drawing is essential, but you don't necessarily need blue to accomplish that. Green has a couple of card drawers and/or searchers (besides a one shot Wordly Tutor): Sylvan Library (especially combined with that card that replaces your draws so you don't have to pay for those two extra), Recycle(? Or that card that lets you draw one whenever you cast spell). Colorless card drawers might be Scroll Rack, Jayemdae (or Fool's) Tome. Card go-getters might be Survival of the Fittest.

The colorless ones might be able to fit in any color deck, since red, black, and white don't have too much, if any (Visions for white? )

 

[Hetemti]

Nah, just pull a lot of rituals, Tramatize yourself, then Living Death with Overrun for the kill.

RGu with the Ceta Sanctuary works nice. Or you could just Anvil and try to rush 'em. Kids love it!

 

[rkoelsch]

If you play weenie decks Apocalpyse had recruiters for merfolk, zombie, goblin,elves,kavu, and soldiers. They are a card advantage.

 

[Dead]

Well as far as fast green goes i've managed to deck myself around the 8th turn with enchantress, so that does the trick without recourse to blue. I think you really need white for the rancor/auratog engine to be truly effective as otherwise the demand for enchantments eats into the slots available for creatures... still, slinging a hand of 20 to a mongrel is usually acceptable...

 

[Apollo]

Now, my question is, is there a way to build a fast creature deck that has the ability to survive beyond 8 turns, against decks with control or removal?

Well, really, fast creature decks aren't supposed to survive after the eighth turn. If you're using a weenie deck, even if you have some card drawing, the cards your opponent draws will be better than the cards you draw. You'll get a weenie, they'll get a Serra. That's why you have to kill 'em quick. Instead of thinking about how your deck plays after the eighth turn, concentrate everything on making sure the game doesn't go to the eighth turn. If you put too many card-drawers in there, you won't be able to kill them at all.

At least, that's the way I've always played weenie decks. And if that fails, just try to burn 'em out.

 

[Multani]

The reason why I originally asked this question is because weenie wins via hordes, and 5 out 10 times, I'm just not getting enough creatures to finish the job.
Now, I thought that through card advantage, I could lay more creatures.
And besides, Burn Sucks

Spidey: Scroll Rack's okay, but its a bit too complicated for my taste. Also, Tome's far too slow for my tastes, and I don't really consider tutors card advantage.

The recuriters sound like a good idea, and I might give it a shot.
Personally, I think green cantrips would also do well for green.

 

[Gizmo]

Weenies dont win through hordes.

You only need two weenies to win the game quickly.

Putting a third down is just asking for somebody to blow them all away.

 

[Istanbul]

I guess that depends very much on your definition of 'weenie' and your definition of 'quickly'.

I made a good G/W deck for a guy on Magic Online that's been winning a lot for him, and I explained the deck to him very simply:

"Win fast, or don't win."

 

[Spiderman]

Well, when I saw "blow them away", I naturally think of some global spell like Wrath or Jokulhaups or something. So it depends if you "know" what your opponent is playing. If you think they have such a spell, you hold back until they have to "waste" such a spell on getting rid of your troublesome creatures. If you're pretty sure they don't, you can put yours down.

I thought of one for white: Inheiritance