Evolution of Magic

[K1]

Ok, here's a little quickie just to stimulate discussion.

1) When did you start magic?
2) Was Magic a better game back then? Did you have more fun? WHY?

Still sorting my thoughts out on this one, answer to come.

K1 out

 

[TomB]

I'm sorry, K1. What was it you wanted us to vote on? Was Magic a better game 5+ years ago when I started? That's tough to say, since Revised boosters were impossible to find at the time, and Fallen Empires was the current expansion. Comparing that to 6th ed. rules and ultra-high combo "tech" monotony isn't easy, for me.

In my opinion, Magic's Golden age was 2 years ago, during the Mirage/Tempest era. The sets were balanced, if a little fast (on the Tempest side), and there was a huge diversity in decks, and deck types.

But, is better "fun"?

I don't think so. I think better is more competitive, more cutthroat, and, while it's fun when you're winning in a tournament it's a real drag to lose, and every tourney has only one winner in the end.

I've never had as much fun in the game as I did when I first started playing. I think that "Age of Innocence" we all went through when we were first introduced to the game was the best time of all, when we played with 100+ card decks, and our idea of a killer combo was having a Dwarven Warrior and a Dragon Whelp in play at the same time.

Why was it more fun? I don't know. Maybe it was the sense of discovery. I still remember my first trip to Great America (an amusement park where I live) and what a blast me and my friends had, though it happened 20 years ago. I've been there dozens of times since, and I still get a thrill out of riding the roller coasters and everything, but it's somehow never equaled my feelings on that first trip.

Damn, this thing sounds like the article I SHOULD have written this week, instead of the piece I hacked out last night!

Did that help?

TomB
CPA Member

 

[Spiderman]

I started Magic in the fall of '94, when the Dark was just going out of print and Revised was the basic set.

I would say it was better in that during that time, there were no combos or cards that could kill your opponent in one turn. The closest was Black Vise so usually you had to empty your hand (or get rid of 4 cards) or play with Disenchant or Shatter.

Other than that, things were pretty good until Urza's where those first "one-turn" combo cards came about.

 

[Ferret]

I started in the winter of '94 when Fallen Empires was new and Revised was still on the shelf. No one had ever heard of combo decks - except for Channel Fireball, the closest thing to a Pro Tour was the weekly tourneys at the local gaming store where things like first turn Taiga, Kird Ape were common and everyone had a really good time. There was no 'Metagame'. No one cared about having to have four of the 'must have' cards like Cursed Scroll or Masticore and the environment was more-or-less balanced.

When Ice Age came out the game started to degenerate. Necrodecks became glamourized in The Duelist and everyone and their mother was playin one. This was where Magic started to lose it's "fun" flavour. All of a sudden everyone has to worry about the 'decks to beat'....and we've seen where that's gotten us.

Things were so much better when all of the cards were broken, but we didn't know it yet...

-ferret

"...kicking it old school..."

 

[Chaos Turtle]

September 30th, 1995. I remember the date because it was the night before I moved to my current home in the NC mountains.

I had seen the ads for Ice Age in Dragon Magazine (I was an avid AD&D-er) and thought to myself, "How stupid, a game with collectible cards..." But I happened to see the 4th edition Gift Box at Electronics Boutique and, upon reading the copy on the back, decided to give it a shot.

I was hooked within the hour.

Was Magic a better game then? It depends upon the perspective. I agree with Ferret's view that not knowing what a 'broken' card was. I knew the Black Vise was good, but I liked The Rack was better (mainly because I actually had one). It was over a year before I saw my first dual land or Kird Ape, and I was immediately perturbed by these 'overly powerful' cards.

However, I believe in accepting the reality of a situation, which is that, with the advent of 'Pro' Magic, the innocence of the game has evaporated. Most players are very well-schooled in evaluating cards and identifying 'crap' and 'power.'

The current rules set, too, is far better than all that have come before, in my not-at-all humble opinion.

Better or worse? Hard to say. I wish I could play as much as I did back then (nightly til-4-am sessions of multiplayer and mini-tourneys were all the rage at my apartment) but that's out of the question now, being so busy, not to mention that the player base has shrunk dramatically.

Magic is becoming a purer game, though, and I hope that it continues to do so. Eventually (I hope) the day of the "killer combo" will pass, and the game can be fun for all, once again.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not sure if people realized that they were broken back then, but I would definately say Black Vise and Sol Rings were must haves. It wasn't uncommon to get around two Vises out with help from either the Ring or Dark Ritual, and later the Tinder Wall from Ice Age.

Demonic Tutor was pretty much a must-have in black.

I don't think people realized the power of Wheel of Fortune since it wasn't in too many decks from that time, although it also combo'd nicely with the Vise.

And Regrowth was also probably underrated.

 

[DeathPitOffering]

I started playing round tempest. Therefore i really have nothing to compare magic to! I know that I dont like the current enviroment. magic has basically become a game of who has the most money and who has the better hand. I dont think magic should be like that. I think wizards relized it too. people have been saying how MM and nemesis suck, but there toning down the game. (Heres an examlpe. Say all the cards were rated on a 1-10 scale, 10 being the highest. USB had like, 25% of the cards be 10's, and the others be 5's and 1's. The result was what magic is today: A game of money. What wizards (I hope) is trying to do is make all the cards 5-7's. Thats what I think the MM bloack is trying to do) I expect magic to be alot of fun by the time USB rotates out!

 

[Wizard2000]

I started around the time Tempest came out. I picked up some Weatherlight also since it was the next most recent set. I agree that in those days there weren't all the "have this or die" and "be ready for this or die" type of cards and combos. The game was a blast then and I feel Urza's block took some of that away. I feel like the MM block helps to push away the speed and gets back more into strategy. I still miss cards like the Thundermare and the Rathi Dragon. I used to use those to ruin my friends.

I am hoping that Magic will regain that "magical" feeling that it had in those days. I feel like the current sets are getting close, but they need to do major work on the 6th edition. To answer the question. Magic was more fun then, but I think it can be again.

 

[Ura]

I started playing back when Beta came out (god I feel old all of a sudden) and I can honestly say that I had much more fun back then. There was nothing like the casual cheer and friendliness of a bunch of guys getting together at the local coffee shop (cause card shops didn't have playing space yet) and just dukeing it out with fries, coffee, and 2 hour long grand melee games.
Many of the new sets are all based on comboing and eliminating your opponent by turn 3 or 4. The game loses some of its luster when new people get scared off by someone comboing them to death on turn 3 and all they have is a crumby WotC pre-con deck and a booster or two.
Its just not as much fun to play and expect to either kill or be killed in the first 4 turns.
While I think that this is fine for competitive magic, it often spills over into the casual game shop play and gets lame.
I actually built a deck that could kill an unlimited amount of opponents by the fourth or fifth turn. I played it twice and felt dirty cause I had just committed what is reffered to in RPG land as munchkinism. I can't stand munchkins and have now punished myself by only playing with basic land and commons untill I don't feel so guilty for it.

 

[Ura]

I agree with you 100% Turtle. Thats why I started a newbie deck clinic and playing night at my shop. That way they can all play against other newbies and not get hosed while myself and one or two other vetran players give advice and help on how to make good fun decks without mentioning all the power cards and good in standard techniques. The kids and the parents love it, and I actually enjoy being able to teach them.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

It is the responsibility of the dedicated casual player to seek out these newbies and show them how to play the game and have a good time, while resisting the urge to whip out the big guns.

I was playing a nice kid the other day, and I felt stupid when I just crushed his little newbie deck with my nauseatingly brutal Enchantress-Hermit deck.
My solution? "Hey, you got any other decks?"
He did, and we played, using his decks. I offered helpful play tips (like saving burn for creatures and playing instants at the end of a turn or combat) and construction suggestions that had nothing to do with what's "strong" in Standard.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Magic needs more people like you, Ura.

 

[Gryphonclaw]

Way to go URA!!!

I am getting very fed up with the current environment in magic, skilled play has lost a lot to skilled deck making. All too often I find myself losing simply because my opponent has played a lethal combo, or a deck style that requires another certain deck style to beat.

I started playing around revised/fallen empires, and I really liked the environment back then. There was no such thing as a killer deck, any deck could quite possibly beat any other deck. Plus Deep spawn was a good card.
Of course there were some clumsy combos even back then, but they could be negated by any decently constructed deck.

And I definitely agree about newbies. There is something definitely wrong about shredding a novice with an advanced deck. Which is why I try to always carry at least one deck that can win, but will lose.

 

[Dune Echo]

Hey Gryphonclaw, I have a deck that makes Deep Spawn a good card again. Email me if you want to know it.

 

[BurlyBrute]

Yes, Magic did seem more fun back in the innocence of ICE AGE, I can remember being excited at some of the commons I'd find in my booster packs. My friends would play (and sometimes argue the timing rules) and while we tried to win, we were just having fun.
Although the tourney scene back then seems tame now, those were the days that no one played Blue, 'cause every other deck had 4 Black Vices.
Still, to this day, I find myself amazed how much fun this card game is. My friends and I get together almost every weekend to battle with our weird and wonderous group decks, while I save my more "killer" designs for the shop where I work.
So while the game itself has changed alot with time, the fun aspect has never ceased for me.

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

I started playing between The Dark and Fallen Empires. For months, though, all you could find (when you found anything), was Revised - I must have bought 6-7 boxes myself.

Magic was probably more fun then, simply because it seemed like there were more people. On Saturdays, 8-10 of us would gather at the local comic shop and use our 200 card decks to play a SINGLE game that lasted for hours.

The most popular card was Howling Mine, because the more Mines we had in play, the faster we could get to our "good" cards. Finally, after lots of creature battles, somebody would Fireball or Hurricane to win.

Great times!

 

[galtwish]

I'll have to pitch my vote in for Ice Age being the golden age of Magic for these reasons:

The Internet was a bunch of collected newsgroup threads and tourney reports

No one understood Necro, or theories other than Card Advantage and Mana Curve until T2 was around and the largest tournament format

The cards didn't lend themselves to infinite combos (except of Enduring Renewal and half a dozen other easily disruptable cards)

People played sealed deck to get the cards

Booster Draft and Poker were non-existant

Getting four of any one rare was difficult at best

The game had a fantasy feel to it: ie ravaging chaotic armies attacked knights sworn to protect lawful humanity, evil necromancers sought to give there very lives for knowledge, Gaea's minions sought aid from traditional allies to combat threats to the forest, etc. I don't believe you should lose when a mage brainstorms, franticly searches, causes the sea to swell, alters time to continually reap the sea's power (shouldn't it reset the mana pool if you twist time?) and basicly explodes your head with too much knowledge. I could believe Prosbloom or Earthraft (since the offending mage generally would have died the same turn anyways due various reasons), but not Stroke or Palinflare)

The golden age of competiton was during the Mirage/Tempest days before Exodus, thus preventing the dominance of Rec/Sur, the best T2 deck by far (other than Necro) when it was legal, and there was no stupid Hatred ("the other combo"). There was a lot of excitement about the Tour, about PTQs, about local tournies, etc.

But you know, we can still play those decks with our friends, and we can try to get small block party tournaments going as well, so lets not cry in our beer too much (besides, it waters down that sweet, sweet beer)

Erik

 

[galtwish]

...and I start playing in September of 1995 (damn, that was a long time ago...)

 

[maraud234]

Yeah, I know what you were thinking about.

I wanted to know how long people have been playing magic. I myself have been playing for 4 years, but I stop playing, then I start up again, then I stop, then I start again, etc.

 

[Spiderman]

I can't believe this question hasn't been asked before. I did a quick scan of all the topics in Classic and couldn't find anything and I'm not sure what a good keyword is to search the entire site. So if someone wants to help me out and find if there has been a previous thread on this, I'll merge it. Otherwise, after everyone answers and this dies down, I'll move it back to Classics.

I've been playing since late '94, during the end of The Dark and Revised.