Eternal Masters

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Oversoul, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Oversoul The Tentacled One

  2. Melkor Well-Known Member

    This is quite nice. Hopefully they populate this with good, valuable cards throughout, rather than just rest on the laurels of a couple of big time reprints. In any event, I'm happy that they are printing this set.
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I'm optimistic. I mean, their persistent refusal to ditch the Reserved List is annoying, but it's still possible for this to be a great set. Hopefully they take it easy on their attempts at draft chaff.
  4. Terentius The Instigator

    Force of Will! Aww snap son!
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Someone posted this in a YouTube comment section of a video about how none of us are even going to be able to buy this set...

    Since I'm oh so helpful, I replied in extravagant detail. For posterity, this was my reply...

    If you're new to the game, I woudn't even worry about it. This is a set that consists entirely of reprints, with some of the reprints being of old, highly sought after cards that sell for exorbitant amounts of money on the secondary market. Because the cards in this set are likely to be in high demand and because the print run is ridiculously low, packs of this set will be stupidly expensive. Until you know more about the game and what's right for you, a product like this would just be a silly money sink for you.

    That's the gist of it. There's a lot of drama, though. If you want the full rundown, well...

    I'll post that below.
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Magic was first published in 1993 and instantly became popular. It was a runaway success. Because WotC was still a very small company and lacked the resources they have today, print runs were limited, with each new set in 1993 and early 1994 having larger print runs as the company grew, but still selling out like crazy. Now, at the time, there was the basic "core" set that had already been printed a few times in different forms, and there were expansion sets, which were printed sequentially, with all-new cards in each one (technically, they accidentally left a basic land, a Mountain, in the very first expansion, but other than that, the expansions consisted only of brand-new cards). The core set mostly stayed the same, but in the middle of 1994, they made a changed version that swapped out some of the original cards for substitutes that had already been printed in the first two expansion sets (mostly because some of the original cards were too powerful or too confusing). The company eventually grew enough to get a handle on the demand, but that wasn't until late into 1994, and by that point, they'd already released four expansion sets that very few people had had a chance to actually buy, on account of low print runs.

    In 1995, the game continued to grow and new expansions were released, with the core set being modified yet again (this became known as Fourth Edition), swapping out some of the original cards for ones that had been released in expansions. But there was a problem: there were still a lot of cards from those first four expansions, the ones with the lowest print runs, that were very hard to find, but that a lot of players wanted, and they couldn't all fit into the core set. So Wizards of the Coast took a step to address the problem, printing a new special set called "Chronicles." This was a set meant to gather a portion of the virtually inaccessible cards from the first four expansion sets in one place, as reprints. The cards were made to look just like Fourth Edition cards, with a white border (the expansion sets all had black borders) and a line on the bottom with the year "1995" printed below the artist credit. They did have the expansion symbols showing the sets in which they'd originally been released, but the rest made them look like Fourth Edition cards.

    Chronicles made some collectors mad because the cards they'd acquired from the old expansion sets started being worth less money on the secondary market. Like, it had been the case that if you wanted a copy of Nicol Bolas, you'd have to get one from the Legends set, and there hadn't been many printed because Wizards of the Coast couldn't afford to print very many cards back in June of 1994 when Legends was released. Most people would prefer the original, black-bordered card, but part of the demand came from people who just wanted the cards, so the market value of the cards that got reprinted went down. So these collectors threw a big temper tantrum about how betrayed they felt. Wizards of the Coast wanted to give players a way to buy the cards they wanted to buy, but they also didn't want to alienate some of their best established customers, the collectors who'd bought lots of those early sets. So they came up with the Reserved List.

    The Reserved List is a list of cards that Wizards of the Coast wrote down and said, "Look here collectors. We know that you're mad because we reprinted cards. We'd already reprinted cards before, but this time it upset you. So from now on, we'll reprint any cards we want, but we pinky-swear not to ever, ever reprint any cards that are on this here list. So now you know which cards are safe from being reprinted. There, there, don't you feel better now?" And so they added cards to the list. Not every card that wasn't on the list got reprinted, but the ones that were on the list didn't get reprinted.

    And then in 1997 they accidentally reprinted one of the cards they pinky-swore that they would never, ever, not ever reprint. Oops! Slipped up a bit there. And lo, the temper tantrums did fly. "OK, OK, so we messed up there," said Wizards of the Coast. "And the cat's out of the bag on that one card, but still we will never ever, not ever reprint any card on the list of cards they pinky-swore not to reprint, EXCEPT Feroz's Ban, which is being removed from the list henceforth, since it already got reprinted anyway. But hey, it's a pretty bad card, so who cares? You really only cared about the cards that were actually worth money, and this one wasn't, so it's like we kept our promise."

    And then in 2002, they decided to remove a bunch of cards from the list. And lo, the temper tantrums did fly. "BUT YOU PROMISED!" the collectors cried, nursing their delicate feelings that Wizards of the Coast had so callously mutilated. Wizards of the Coast shrugged and said, "Look, none of the cards that we took off the list were even rares. And also, like almost everyone wanted some of those cards to be reprinted, so somehow that makes it like we didn't even break our promise, not really anyway."

    The years went by and the game continued to grow. Wizards of the Coast got rid of an old tournament format called "Type 1.5" and replaced it with "Legacy." Well, Legacy became really popular, and because it was popular, the cards that were good in the format became sought-after, and some of those were on the pinky swear list, er, I mean the Reserved List. Because those cards weren't going to get reprinted, their prices on the secondary market shot way, way up. So it started to become too expensive to get into Legacy at all. Players who weren't even interested in Legacy wanted access to those old cards too, but they just couldn't afford them. "Hey," said the players, "we don't like the Reserved List. It's very silly and you already changed it a couple of times. It's outdated. Just get rid of it. We want to buy those cards, but we can't afford them from the people who are selling them now. If you reprint them, you'll make lots of money."
    "You make a good point," said Wizards of the Coast, "but the collectors would be really mad if we did that. Their cards are valuable now and would lost value if we reprinted them!"
    "Wait a minute," said some of us, who still had all of our old cards from the 1990's, "we want to play Magic, and we want people to play it with. We don't care if the prices of our dual lands tank. It's a card game, not an investment! Rescind the Reserved List. Reprint Legacy staples. Do it for the players. Do it for the game. Do it for the vast mountains of cash you'll gain from this."
    On hearing that last part, Wizards of the Coast momentarily faltered, but they quickly recovered, "Well, we did make a promise, and a promise is a promise, something never to be broken. We would never, ever, not ever betray the sacred trust of the pinky oath or whatever the hell it was. Also, whenever we talk about this, certain people throw a temper tantrum, so we're not going to talk about it. End of discussion."
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    But the seed of discontent had been planted. And so Wizards of the Coast reprinted cards from the list of cards they'd never ever, not ever reprint, doing so in foil form, which they insisted on calling "premium" because it sounds better. "Behold," they proclaimed, "we have revised our reprint policy. At the time the Reserved List was first made, there was no such thing as premium cards. So we figure, hey, when we said we'd never print them again, that just meant the REGULAR versions. These are different! These are PREMIUM! So they don't count." And lo, the temper tantrums did fly. They flew like they'd never flown before. So intense was the flight of the mighty temper tantrums that Wizards of the Coast was stricken with a vast wave of remorse. The skies over Renton, Washington darkened, and the inky tides of madness spewed forth from the collectors and swept all across Hasbro, parent company of Wizards of the Coast. And when the dust settled, Wizards of the Coast apologized and promised never to ever, not ever hurt the poor collectors again, just so long as they'd please, please not throw any temper tantrums.

    And that was the last time Wizards of the Coast would ever reprint any of the cards on the Reserved List. Just kidding! They printed oversized versions for a special "Commander" product. And tears welled up in the eyes of the collectors. "Not again," Wizards of the Coast whimpered softly, "these ones aren't even real cards. You can't put them in a deck. Look at them, they're much too big. See, see how they don't fit? You can't even play with these cards. They're not the right size. Oh god, please don't. No, no, we promise never to do it again, OK? Just don't get mad about it. No more Reserved cards ever, OK? You'd like that, right?" So they didn't do that one again either.

    And the cost of Legacy did rise like leavened bread. And the cost of Vintage did soar into the realm of new car prices. So Wizards of the Coast created a new format, calling it "Modern." "Behold," they said to the players, "all of the sets in this format were released no earlier than August of 2003. Being that the newest cards on the you-know-what list are from 1999, we can reprint ANY cards in this format any time we want. What do you think of that, players?" And there was much rejoicing, except from the players who wanted to use their cards from before August of 2003.

    "Hey Wizards," the collectors said one day.
    "Yes collectors, what is it?" Wizards of the Coast asked nervously.
    "You keep printing this card, Reverberate. It's basically just Fork, though, and Fork is on the..."
    "Oh, come on," exclaimed the players, "not this again! It's NOT the same card. REVERBERATE is not on the Reserved List. Wizards, don't give in to these guys. We'll fight them. Will you let us fight them?"
    "Hey players, shut up," Wizards of the Coast snapped, "we don't want another you-know-what out of you-know-whom. Just be cool. Uh, we will no longer reprint cards that violate the SPIRIT of the Reserved List. They don't actually have to be on the list. We won't print any card that's too CLOSE to being like a card that's on the list. That way we're totally keeping our promise, just like we always do."

    And from that day forward, Wizards of the Coast did swagger and boast of its great honor and integrity, how even in the face of controversy, it had upheld its sacred vow to never ever, not ever reprint any cards on the list of cards that it promised not to reprint. The players gathered and beseeched Wizards of the Coast, "You gave us Legacy, but you did not reprint the cards that are in highest demand. The format is prohibitively expensive. You gave us Modern, but the demand for the cards there is too high, and the players who do not already own the cards cannot afford them The print run on Modern Masters was too low and it didn't help because there wasn't enough to go around. You popularized Commander, and now all of the good cards in any set are in higher demand due to this influx of Commander players. There are not enough of the good cards. Give us reprints, and we will shower wealth upon you."
    "We get it," answered Wizards of the Coast, "and we do not like this anymore than you do. But it's not that easy. Force of Will was printed in 1996 and has never been reprinted since. It's not on the you-know-what-list, but it's worth some outrageous amount of money on the secondary market and if we were to reprint it, you-know-who might have a temper tantrum."
    I chimed in, "I have a few playsets of Force of Will. I use them in lots of decks. Go ahead and reprint it. I want other people to be able to have it too."
    "Well, that's good for you," responded Wizards of the Coast, "but what about that guy over there? He has 60 copies of the card."
    "You heard me," they said, "and you know he'd throw a pretty big temper tantrum if we were to reprint it and make the price go down."
    And so commenced a cavalcade of other questions. "What about Modern cards?" "What would you even do with sixty of the same card if you're not a business?" "What about Modern cards?" "Are you just afraid you'll get sued or something?"
    "Hey, got to get going," said Wizards of the Coast.

    But year after year, the players clamored for more reprints of hard-to-get cards. Wizards of the Coast reprinted a few expensive cards in special sets like "Conspiracy" and "Commander" products, but it didn't come close to solving the problem. Then they announced Modern Masters 2015! A new Modern Masters with a higher print run. All reprints, all tailored for Modern. Also, it would need to be balanced for drafting, because that's what's really important about any set, when you think about it, for some reason. "We don't want draft chaff!" exclaimed the players. "We want real reprints of Modern staples."
    "And you'll get them. See?"
    "Why are those rares moved up to mythic rare?" asked the players.
    "It's to balance draft. Look, this set will be really cool and you'll really like it." And so there was much rejoicing.

    But soon it became apparent that too many of the most sought-after Modern staples were missing from this new set. Modern was still prohibitively expensive, and the print run, while higher, still wasn't sufficient to satisfy the sheer number of players. "We need more reprints," the players persisted. "These special sets haven't been enough. If you won't get rid of the Reserved List, at least reprint the cards that aren't on it. Reprint Force of Will. Reprint Wasteland. Rishadan Port. Reprint Liliana of the Veil. Reprint Damnation already! Stop teasing us." Wizards of the Coast saw the collectors stirring at the mention of reprints. Glaring, Wizards of the Coast brandished a knife at the players and snarled, "Hey, how about you shut up about reprints already or else."
    "Whoa," said the players, "this has gotten crazy. You're crazy." And they left it at that.

    And then Wizards of the Coast announced that they would print a brand new special set full of reprints this June. The only cards that have been revealed so far are Force of Will and Wasteland, two cards that are valuable for their utility in Legacy, frequently selling for over $60 just for one card. In fact, out of all the non-Reserved cards in the Legacy format, those are the two that might be considered to need reprints the most. This got Legacy players excited. Of course, the cards were moved up from uncommon to rare in one case and mythic rare in the other, but at least they're being reprinted at all! And with awesome new artwork too! This all seemed too good to be true. It led to some speculation that Wizards of the Coast wouldn't actually print enough Eternal Masters for people to actually be able to have a chance to buy it at a reasonable price. But not to worry. Wizards of the Coast promises that this release is going to be great. And as we all know by now, they always keep their promises.

    That's what's up with Eternal Masters.
  8. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Great explanation. Your characterizations of the groups were fairly spot on.
  9. Melkor Well-Known Member

    We finally have more spoilers. Can't pass judgment based on just 10 cards but I'm certainly not less excited for the set now.
  10. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I'd already preordered boxes from a couple of places back when only the first two cards were spoiled. I've been warned that some places might not honor their preorders because of how stupidly the supply is limited on this one, but we'll see. I won't be disappointed to get more, rather than less, if possible. This set is looking amazing so far. I mean, it even has Mana Crypt! The ridiculously limited print run on it may be a very real problem, but the content (and art) is superb.
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One


    You really didn't watch the video, did you? :rolleyes: You should. It's funny.
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I can't from work right now. It's blocked.
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The spoilers keep coming in. Gaea's Blessing, Mishra's Factory, Balance, Sensei's Divining Top, Control Magic, Animate Dead, and so on.

    This set has Karakas in it!

    Here's hoping for some more interesting commons, though...
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    It's a pity the cost is so exorbitant because of deliberately constrained supply. This set is looking like it would be a real boon to casual players if it were affordable. Casual players probably aren't inclined to pay more than triple the price per booster pack. Anyway, money aside, here are my reactions to the spoilers...

    Mythic Rare
    Balance: Oh yes! One of the most powerful sorceries ever.
    Force of Will: Yes! Needed a reprint so very, very badly and the new art is gorgeous. Mythic rare, though? I mean, at least it's finally here.
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Good. He's been reprinted twice, but he's so powerful that the demand for him is still way too high. One of the top three planeswalkers in both Legacy and Vintage. A shoe-in for this set.
    Necropotence: Excellent. One of my favorite cards ever. I can never say no to Necropotence.
    Vampiric Tutor: Very nice. It's been too long and the card needed another reprint. I'm a bigger fan of Demonic Tutor and Demonic Consultation than this card, but when it comes to tutor spells, Vampiric Tutor is still one of the big three.
    Sneak Attack: Yes! Another extremely powerful card desperately in need of reprinting. A powerhouse in Legacy and generally amazing with any big creatures.
    Worldgorger Dragon: Well, it was very strong in its heydey. While it's not a superstar anymore, this card is fun and powerful, so I can't complain. The set also has Animate Dead, so some player somewhere will successfully execute a Worldgorger combo in a booster draft, and that's just living the dream.
    Dack Fayden: Very good. Only ever had one printing before and is another planeswalker that is one of the most powerful ever. Arguably the best planeswalker in Vintage, where stealing artifacts is so strong.
    Maelstrom Wanderer: Eh, this one isn't bad, but also isn't particularly good. I mean, I'd totally consider putting it in a highlander deck or something, but at eight mana, there are some other creatures I'd rather get. Like Worldgorger Dragon, this is a card that once had carved out a niche, but that has fallen by the wayside.
    Chrome Mox: Good. A they say, the worst mox is still a mox. Too bad Mox Diamond is on the Reserved List. However, Mox Opal is not, so maybe...
    Mana Crypt: Yes, yes, yes, yes!
    Karakas: Yeah! Another card that really needed reprinting.

    Enlightened Tutor: Very good. Like Vampiric Tutor, it got reprinted in Sixth Edition, but that hasn't been nearly enough. Both cards jumped up in rarity, but whatever.
    Unexpectedly Absent: Not bad. This set offers the chance to reprint the original cards in the Commander product line that turned out to be popular in their own right. It's not a tournament powerhouse, but not everything has to be. Two mana for a tuck effect is solid.
    Control Magic: Not bad. The bump up to rare is, like a lot of these cards, done to balance Limited formats and unfortunate otherwise, but older printings are still dirt-cheap in this case, so whatever.
    Diminishing Returns: Meh. Most people still seem to respect this card, but the disadvantages are too severe. Combo players have been throwing this in sideboards of Burning Wish decks for years and it's pretty much been bad the whole time anyway. I get that it's another old card last reprinted in Sixth Edition and while it's not completely useless, it's just too risky for my liking.
    Mystical Tutor: Very good. Might as well include the whole cycle, although this one was the second strongest after Vampiric Tutor. Last reprinted in Sixth Edition. Not in very high demand because it's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage. But it's a good card.
    Entomb: Yes! Another great card.
    Ichorid: Not bad. Can't argue with tournament performance, although Dredge decks are pretty highly specialized and this card has little other use. The card from those decks that would really be exciting here is Bazaar of Baghdad, but it's on the Reserved List. I guess this reprint makes sense.
    Toxic Deluge: Good. Like Unexpectedly Absent, this is a reprint from a Commander product. But in this case, the card has really proven itself. One of the strongest cards to come out of a Commander product, if not the strongest. The price tag is somewhat inflated because of that, so hopefully this reprint helps.
    Dualcaster Mage: Nah, bad choice with this one. Not sure why they'd try to push this card. It's not so much that it's terrible as it is a reminder that they messed up by letting Snapcaster Mage be blue. This attempt at a red version fell flat and hasn't done anything. It might be part of their cycle of rare Commander reprints that they apparently built into this set, but it's a waste of a rare slot when there are better red cards out there.
    Gamble: Yes! Much needed reprint.
    Rorix Bladewing: Not bad. Wouldn't be my first choice for a big, red creature in this set, but it's still a nice card.
    Regal Force: OK. Nothing too remarkable on its own, but it could be part of the elf theme in this set, as it plays nicely with elves. Green has a lot of depth for big, rare creatures, and this one isn't quite at the top, but isn't really middle of the pack either. Also, it was probably chosen for this set in part because it has a high price tag on the secondary market due to total lack of reprints (until now).
    Sylvan Library: A classic. Also, I didn't realize that it's worth over $20 now, even for a Fifth Edition version. I'd better go dig up my copies and sleeve them. Yeah, good choice, though.
    Baleful Strix. Good. I wish it had stayed at uncommon. Balancing for Limited formats strikes again. Look, the only people who are actually going to draft this set are people who don't need pandering to anyway. Whatever.
    Shardless Agent: Yes! The ultimate cascade card and it hadn't been reprinted. Now that it's a rare, I doubt the price will go down much, but every copy helps. This guy is in huge demand.
    Vindicate: Good. Needed a reprint.
    Void: Wait, what? Ugh, no. Such a waste of a rare slot.
    Deathrite Shaman: Yes! The one-mana planeswalker is back.
    Goblin Charbelcher: Sure. I mean, I play the card myself, but it's pretty niche. I wouldn't say no to more combo stuff, and the new art is fantastic. Also, I make the motion to change Spiderman's handle to "Some Goblin."
    Nevinyrral's Disk: Good. The original art beats the crap out of the version they use for reprints, but I can't complain about the card itself. Another great classic.
    Sensei's Divining Top: Very good. Shouldn't have been bumped up to rare, but I'm noticing a trend that some of the cards with inflated secondary market values attributable to tournament staple status get bumped up in rarity, perhaps to keep those values from dropping too sharply.
    Maze of Ith: Nice. Another classic.
    Wasteland: Yes! Desperately needed reprint with great art.

    Daze: Good. I know it's another bump up in rarity, but Daze at uncommon seems fine. It's a fine card that's overly ubiquitous in Legacy and Vintage due to circumstances, but I'm glad it's being reprinted.
    Prodigal Sorcerer: Blast from the past, huh? Some combination of historical interest and crafting a theme for Limited play is probably at work here. Prodigal Sorcerer isn't that good and I'd rather see something a little more special, like Suq'Ata Firewalker.
    Animate Dead: Yes! A great card with a great art update and it'll be amusing to see it with that miserable Oracle text in real print.
    Cabal Therapy: Yes! And it got to stay at uncommon. Only problem is that they used the stupid Graveborn art. I'm a fan of Ron Spencer's art.
    Hymn to Tourach: Good. In principle, it didn't need a reprint for card availability, as Fallen Empires was printed so heavily and black is somewhat relegated these days for Legacy and Vintage tournament play. But it's one of the best spells for black-heavy decks and should be included in this set.
    Chain Lightning: Very good. Feel the burn.
    Gaea's Blessing: Not bad. Ever since the Eldrazi titans were printed, this card hasn't been quite as special as it once was, but it is still very cool and I'm glad they kept the excellent original art.
    Timberwatch Elf: Not bad. Other elves are stronger these days, but not making the cut in Legacy when the pool of good elves is so deep isn't so damning. The new art is good and if I put this guy into a deck, I'd want to use this version.
    Wirewood Symbiote: Good. An excellent card for elf decks and the new art is great.
    Bloodbraid Elf: Good. With Shardless Agent and Maelstrom Wanderer, we've got a cascade theme going on here. Interesting. Will Hypergenesis be in this set?
    Shaman of the Pack: Meh. Probably meant to push elves for black/green in Limited formats. It's not a bad card, though.
    Ashnod's Altar: Interesting. Another card we haven't seen since Sixth Edition. It's not really used anywhere anymore, but it has combo potential and I have fond memories of the card. I prefer the old art.
    Mishra's Factory: Yes! This is just one of the coolest lands ever.

    Counterspell: Well, on the one hand, I'd kind of be mad if this wasn't in the set, barring the inclusion of Mana Drain or Arcane Denial or something. On the other hand, it's annoying that Wizards of the Coast baselessly insists that this card is too powerful to be reprinted in a normal set. I suppose we'll have to take what we can get.
    Giant Tortoise: Ha! I initially suspected that this was some weird thing for Limited formats or part of some theme in the set, but really I'm guessing that someone just wanted to troll the players with this one.
    Nimble Mongoose: Good choice. Another card that just isn't as strong as it used to be, but as a common, it's fine.
    Werebear: Good, I guess. Wait, is there a threshold subtheme in green? Weird.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I was going to update my post as they spoiled new cards, but then I ran into the character limit, of course. Here's a new one, which I'll keep editing for a while...

    Wrath of God: Still a great card. Pales in comparison to Balance and these days it is outshined by Terminus, but it is strong enough make sense in a set like this. Wizards of the Coast might be trolling the players by including this over Damnation, which the players keep asking for.

    Squadron Hawk: Caw, caw, caw, caw. I hope they put Storm Crow in this set.

    Wee Dragonauts: OK. But this is not a real storm card. Give us real storm cards. Reprint Tendrils of Agony and I will love this set forever.

    Call the Skybreaker: Meh. In any other set this would probably be fine as a rare. Kinda lackluster next to all these good cards. The only retrace spell I really used to was Worm Harvest.

    Hydroblast: Uh, what? I mean, I know this set has classic cards in it and color hosers used to be a thing, but getting rid of that stuff was one of the things I really appreciated about the game evolving. This wastes an uncommon slot.

    Pyroblast: Same problem as Hydroblast. It actually is used a bit in Legacy, both because blue is so ubiquitous and because Painter's Servant decks (rarely seen anymore) are red and can use the spell on anything. Still don't think these should be in the set.

    Giant Solifuge: Reprinting this taxonomic abomination is done specifically for the purpose of irking me. I'll not give them the satisfaction of responding to this obvious bait.

    Natural Order: Excellent. Another very powerful card. Best target currently out of this set is probably Regal Force. In Legacy, the traditional targets are Progenitus for control-combo decks and Craterhoof Behemoth for aggro-combo decks.

    Green Sun's Zenith: Good. This is probably an underplayed card in Legacy right now. Very versatile and very powerful.

    Burning Vengeance: Meh. Flashback theme I guess. Never seen anyone break this card, although people have tried.

    Quiet Speculation: Boo. More Flashback theme stuff. It was good in Standard, but that doesn't mean much.

    Oona's Grace: Another underwhelming Retrace spell. Seems like they're trying to bolster Commander with some of this set, which is splitting the focus too much. It's still a great set, but the selection of commons is awkward.

    Nausea: Not bad. This is a cheap common that has profound effects in some matchups. I approve.

    Goblin Trenches: Well, it's a stronger card than it looks. This will probably be a bomb in Limited, but it is mediocre in most constructed formats.

    Sinkhole: Yes! So far we already have Necropotence, Hymn to Tourach, and Sinkhole. Come on, Dark Ritual...

    Brainstorm: Good. This kind of had to be in the set. It should be at common, though.

    Isochron Scepter: A classic. Keep 'em coming.

    Argothian Enchantress: Wow. Another great card.

    Karmic Guide: Good. The reanimation shenanigans are strong in this set. It just needs more targets.

    Price of Progress: Very good. It stayed at uncommon too.

    Mesa Enchantress: OK. Not nearly as exciting as Argothian Enchantress, but it's still a decent card.

    Ancestral Mask: Nice. At least they know what an Enchantress deck is. The archetype needs new tools more than it needs reprints, but every little bit helps.

    Firebolt: OK. Not a first tier burn spell, but it's still decent and fits the Flashback theme I guess.

    Wildfire Emissary: Weird. I mean, this pick blatantly capitalizes on nostalgia, but really, it's still an OK card in its own right.

    Sulfuric Vortex: Excellent. They won't reprint my whole Burn deck in this set, but they're coming delightfully close. Fireblast, please?

    Emperor Crododile: Interesting. Bumped all the way down to common. I'd forgotten about this guy. Like Giant Tortoise, it's an obscure choice, but this time, it's also one with some potential.

    Innocent Blood: Yes! I know it's not a tournament staple anymore, but it's still a great card.

    Winter Orb: Yes, yes, yes! It's so beautiful. No, not the art. I mean, that's fine too. Look at the text box.

    Man-o'-War: Good. A classic utility creature at common. I've been enjoying this with Peel from Reality in my bounce deck.

    Mother of Runes: Nice. She's not as prevalent as she once was, but she is still a powerful card. She shouldn't be rare, but we keep seeing this problem. I know it's draft, but that's sacrificing from the wrong end of the spectrum.

    Swords to Plowshares: Very good. This is still a fine removal spell.

    Sengir Autocrat: Wait, what? I mean, I like this card, but I didn't think anyone else did. Fond memories of powering him out on turn one into Delraich. I don't expect to ever see this in a tournament, but it's a fun card anyway.

    Brago, King Eternal: Huh? I mean, I guess it's alright. Seems like they probably cut it from the new Conspiracy product and threw it in here, or perhaps there was some other reason. Wouldn't be my choice, but it's not a bad card either.

    Heritage Druid: Some lucky player will live the dream of drafting a serious elves deck.

    Aven Riftwacher: Meh. Another obscure choice for common that is probably meant mostly for Limited formats. Still not bad.

    Arcanis the Omniopotent: OK. I suspect this was another one meant to lure Commander players. Casual players would be impressed too, but these packs are too expensive.

    Ballyknock Cohort: Ugh. White's commons are really blatant about drawing from stuff that might have once been fine in Standard, but just doesn't do anything in Eternal formats.

    Sphinx of the Steel Wind: OK. Another Commander lure.

    Trygon Predator: Excellent. This is more like it. Who doesn't like Trygon Predator? Trygon Prey, I guess.

    Cephalid Sage: Ugh. No.

    Benevolent Bodyguard: Nope. More draft chaff.

    Extract from Darkness: Huh. Another Conspiracy reprint. Too much mana to be good, though.

    Torrent of Souls: OK. It's too expensive for competitive reanimator decks, but that's not such a big deal. This is still a pretty good card.

    Flame-Kin Zealot: Good. Only ever used it in Dredge myself, but that counts.

    Deep Analysis: Not bad. With the other Flashback stuff I anticipated this one. It holds up reasonably.

    Armadillo Cloak: OK. There are other auras I'd consider before this one, but not many.
  17. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The rest of the set was spoiled while I was at work...

    Dream Twist: Meh. More Flashback mediocrity.
    Glare of Subdual: OK. Opposition was better. "But being able to tap land wasn't fun for your opponent." Don't be a baby.
    Fact or Fiction: Nice. This'll probably be the newb trap in draft. It's still a very strong card, but people misjudge it easily.
    Thunderclap Wyvern: Meh. Draft chaff.
    Future Sight: Not bad. I got excited when I first saw all those blue mana symbols, but Mind Over Matter is on the Reserved List.
    Zealous Persecution: OK. I saw this a lot in Modern and never in Legacy, so it's a better fit for a Modern Masters set. Probably meant to color-balance draft stuff.
    Gaseous Form: OK. A decent casual card with some fun interactions. It seems out of place here.
    Glacial Wall: Ugh. Draft chaff.
    Honden of Seeing Winds: Huh? They're doing the shrine cycle here? Why?
    Inkwell Leviathan: Yes! There we go. There's a big creature.
    Jetting Glasskite: More draft chaff.
    Calciderm: Draft chaff.
    Coalition Honor Guard: Interesting. Someone at WotC remembered that flagbearers exist. They picked the worse one, though.
    Eight-and-a-Half-Tails: Commander bait.
    Elite Vanguard: Good. No Savannah Lions? I mean, it would be a better fit with the whole nostalgia theme going on with the set. But this is fine.
    Faith's Fetters: Borderline draft chaff, but at WotC they love their imprisoning white enchantments, and there are worse choices. Better choices too. This should have been Oblivion Ring.
    Memory Lapse: Good. But it's funny that in the set with all the powerful old cards, they managed to sneak in at least two Homelands cards.
    Field of Souls: Mediocre. I'm sure I remember people trying to use this card when it was new, but I can't recall how. Obviously there's a bit of a token theme in this set, but Field of Souls, while playable, just isn't that great.
    Glimerpoint Stag: Haha. This is Tom LaPille trolling the Legacy community a little bit, which almost no one will get.
    Honden of Cleansing Fire: Seriously, shrines?
    Merfolk Looter: A classic. These days, poor old Merfolk Looter pales in comparison to Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. But hey, still not bad.
    Humble: Good. I used to love playing with this card. Some cool tricks. I prefer the original art.
    Intangible Virtue: OK. This is another card I've seen used in Modern, but not Legacy. Token theme again, too. Still, if it isn't really Legacy playable, it's very, very close.
    Jareth, Leonine Titan: Oh, I get it! They're doing the whole "pit fighter" cycle from Onslaught. We already saw Rorix and Arcanis. None of these guys were ever Legacy superstars, but none of them were that bad either.
    Peregrine Drake: Not funny. They're mocking us by throwing in the least-used of the High Tide combo components. There's no combo potential here, which is really too bad. Actually, I shouldn't say there's none until I look more carefully at the whole set...
    Kor Hookmaster: Well, it's actually kinda better than most of the other white cards in this set, which isn't saying much.
    Mistral Charger: Wait, what? I totally forgot that this card existed. I missed a lot of Dissension. Happened to be busy at the time. I didn't remember this card at all. Well, it's a thing, I guess. Not that bad, either.
    Phantom Monster: Nope. Wrong card, guys. You wanted Phantom Warrior. Try again.
    Monk Idealist: Hey, I used this in some combo deck way back when!
    Pacifism: Draft chaff. Also, I didn't say so, but I was sure Pacifism would be in this set.
    Raise the Alarm: Not bad. And they had to have something to put on Isochron Scepter.
    Rally the Peasants: OK. Not a traditional Legacy card, but this'll pair well with all those tokens.
    Seal of Cleansing: Ooh, are they bringing back all of the seals? I loved those things.
    Phyrexian Ingester: Uncertain. This does prey on big creatures, but there really aren't that many in this set. On the other hand, it doesn't need a ton of big creatures to target, just one. Too expensive for Legacy, but strong in more casual gameplay.
    Second Thoughts: Meh. Expensive white removal spell in a set that already has Swords to Plowshares. Exile would have made more sense here and it doesn't cost five mana.
    Serra Angel: Good. New releases have hurt the staying power of this classic, especially with the new Avacyn running rampant. But the original is still respectable enough, right?
    Shelter: Heh. They kept the original art, so we can continue with all those jokes about pants. Uh, I may have been 15 when this card originally came out.
    Soulcatcher: What? No. There are way better options than this.
    Wall of Omens: Nice. A wall that is actually worth playing. Again, not a Legacy staple, but totally cool in casual games.
    Screeching Skaab: Boring. And they're really pushing the whole Flashback stuff in this set.
    War Priest of Thune: Nah.
    Welkin Guide: Absolutely not. If I'm paying five mana, I expect some real value.
    Serendib Efreet: Sure. It couldn't compete with the efficiency of some of the newer options, but a 3/4 flyer for only three mana isn't too shabby. I've used this card in many decks over the years.
    Whitemane Lion: Fine. I'd prefer Fleetfoot Panther, but this is good too.
    Shoreline Ranger: Ugh. That's not even good draft chaff.
    Silent Departure: Mediocre. I'd take Void Snare any day, but they have the whole flashback theme going on, so of course this card is back.
    Sprite Noble: Not bad. I haven't used this card, but I was thinking of building a deck in which it would fit nicely.
    Stupefying Touch: Mediocre. I like the new art, though.
    Tidal Wave: OK. As blue combat-oriented stuff goes, and they have to throw a little into the set for draft or something, this is pretty cool.
    Warden of Evos Isle: Meh. Probably more of a Commander thing, although for almost any decks that use a lot of flying, this could be good.
    Wonder: Yes. This is good.
    Annihilate: Meh. When it comes to overcosted black removal, this sure is an option.
    Blightsoil Druid: Not bad. It is an elf, after all, so it fits in with the elf theme.
    Blood Artist: OK. Combo potential.
    Braids, Cabal Minion: Excellent. Don't underestimate Braids.
    Carrion Feeder: Very good. One of my favorite sacrifice outlets for combos that need one. It used to be a lot easier to make this little guy grow before the M10 rules.
    Deadbridge Shaman: OK. Another elf in black, just to make sure we all get that it's a green/black deck for draft.
    Duress: Excellent. Best discard spell ever. Now stop teasing me! Reveal Dark Ritual!
    Eyeblight's Ending: Meh. Now we're not even being remotely subtle about how elves are the option for green/black draft decks.
    Gravedigger: OK. Gravedigger has been around for a long time and WotC is now reluctant to print it because of complexity issues, but this kind of set is considered less constrained, so I'm not surprised to see it here.
    Havoc Demon: Interesting. Not sure what to make of this one. It is pretty big and the effect is pretty powerful.
    Honden of Night's Reach: So I can't help but imagine that they were coming up with cycles to reprint here and someone asked, "What should we reprint from Kamigawa?" "The shrines!" another designer exclaimed. Instead of everyone saying, "No, that would be dumb" they went along with it.
    Lys Alana Scarblade: Huh. Are they just going to squeeze every black elf ever into this set? There are better elves to reprint and better black cards to reprint. This is a bit of a waste.
    Malicious Affliction: Sure. This is decent removal.
    Nekrataal: Another classic. The black cards in this set are looking very, very nice. And they need Dark Ritual very, very much.
    Abundant Growth: OK. Not a card that I expected, but it pairs nicely with the enchantress effects.
    Night's Whisper: Yes! Just need Dark Ritual.

    Well, I've got to go, so I'll do the rest of the spoilers later.

    Spoiler alert: they didn't reprint Dark Ritual. :(
  18. Melkor Well-Known Member

    Overall, I'm pleased with the set, but the way the spoilers progressed, it seemed like there would be one more bigger reveal at the end, which was disappointing when it didn't happen. Still, a lot of nice reprints and hopefully this will be an every other year thing.
  19. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yeah, I don't see why they didn't save Mana Crypt for last. Go out on a really big one. Instead, they spoiled it early and left everyone speculating about Mana Drain and Rishadan Port and such. But when it comes to reprint sets, this one is easily the best so far. I'm happy with it. So, what didn't I get to? Ah, here we are...

    Avarax: Not bad. A cool common for drafts, I'd think. An easy way to put pressure on people in casual games if running Gruul or Naya and playing the beatdown.
    Phyrexian Gargantua: Not bad. Because Legacy and Vintage are so developed and full of broken cards, this has no niche in those tournament formats. But it's good value anyway.
    Brawn: Oh. They're doing that whole cycle of incarnations? Too bad they went with Brawn instead of Genesis.
    Centaur Chieftain: Meh. It is a Threshold card, though. If you do Threshold, you've got to do Cabal Ritual.
    Battle Squadron: Interesting. Haven't seen this card in a very long time. Amusingly, it's a lot better than it was back in the day, since its creature type is Goblin. Also, unban Recruiter, please.
    Phyrexian Rager: Not bad. Same deal as Phyrexian Gargantua. If the set is going the direction of classic Suicide Black, though, there are better options.
    Civic Wayfinder: Meh. Should have been Veteran Explorer, but then, that's not an elf.
    Plague Witch: What? Of all the spellshapers they chose this one? Oh right, it was made an elf. Come on guys, you were spoiling the good elves earlier. Don't just keep throwing inferior cards at us that happen to be elves.
    Commune with the Gods: OK. Shouldn't this be Worldly Tutor? They did the rest of the cycle. This card was pretty good in Standard and I'm not mad that it's here, but green's card-finding spells have been better at points, and this set may as well go all the way.
    Elephant Guide: Not bad. I'd prefer Briar Shield. Or Berserk.
    Prowling Pangolin: Ugh.
    Beetleback Chief: Odd choice. It'd be easy enough to just reprint the goblins people actually use. They picked Piledriver for Magic Origins, so I assumed they had an idea. Goblins are underrated in Legacy right now. But not this guy.
    Skulking Ghost: Meh. Dauthi Horror would fill the same role and do it better.
    Tragic Slip: Good. This should have been in Shadows Over Innnistrad, but I'll take it here instead.
    Elvish Vanguard: OK. This set sure does have a lot of elves.
    Twisted Abomination: Meh. This set has its share of zombies too, but not the good ones.
    Borderland Marauder: Not bad. It's not really feasible to go with dedicated Burn or dedicated Goblins using only cards from this set, but one could probably craft a reasonable Sligh deck with all this stuff.
    Urborg Uprising. Ugh. No.
    Flinthoof Boar: Not bad. An efficient creature for a beatdown deck.
    Victimize: Yes. They keep reprintings these great black cards. We just need Dark Ritual to go with them (and we won't get it). Original art on Victimize was awesome, though.
    Fog: :confused:
    Harmonize: Draft chaff.
    Visara the Dreadful: Fine. Already knew she'd be here because if Jareth is hanging out, the whole cycle might as well be in this set. She was considered quite good in her day. She hasn't aged well, though. Probably quite the bomb in Limited, but Hell will freeze over before she's playable in Legacy.
    Honden of Life's Web: I'm at peace with the idea now. The shrines weren't even good, and they weren't bad enough to be funny here. But here they are. Helps enchantresses in drafts, if anyone cares.
    Carbonize: Boo. That's not Lightning Bolt.
    Wake of Vultures: Nope.
    Imperious Perfect: Very good. And if you're thinking of getting into Legacy Elves through this set, good luck with obtaining Gaea's Cradle and Glimpse of Nature.
    Wakedancer: OK. This is actually not a bad zombie.
    Invigorate: Not bad. This set doesn't really support Stompy or Infect Stompy, but every little bit helps. Berserk would help more.
    Llanowar Elves: Sure, why not?
    Crater Hellion: Fine. This card used to be pretty good. It should still be strong. It lacks a niche in Legacy, but is still acceptable in this set.
    Lys Alana Huntmaster: Not bad. Elves are getting to the point where if they did some sort of Eternal Masters Constructed, they'd be the deck to beat.
    Nature's Claim: Good. One of the better removal options available.
    Worn Powerstone: Nope. That's not Mana Vault or Sol Ring.
    Desperate Ravings: Decent. Should be Frantic Search, but that's nitpicky of me.
    Rancor: Yes. It's still the best at what it does.
    Juggernaut: Good. It's already been reprinted as recently as M15, but it's still a great card.
    Roar of the Wurm: OK. I mean, the combo with Quiet Speculation is kind of a classic, and people can do that again within this set, if they're into that.
    Milikin: OK. It fuels Flashback and such, which was what made it good the first time around.
    Roots: Nah.
    Dragon Egg: Heh. Haven't seen this in a while. Mediocre, but fun anyway.
    Seal of Strength: Good. With more stuff like this, they could push some sort of Stompy deck.
    Emmessi Tome: Ugh. No, no, no. Why?
    Pilgrim's Eye: Meh. World's better than Emmessi Tome. Still not good.
    Sentinel Spider: Meh.
    Duplicant: OK. Much like Phyrexian Ingester, this is a strong card in formats where people can afford six mana for a removal spell and then reap the benefits.
    Silvos, Rogue Elemental: OK. Kind of fits here. Arguably the best Natural Order target in the set.
    Relic of Progenitus: Yep. Solid utility card.
    Prismatic Lens: Nah. You know, Lotus Petal isn't on the Reserved List. Just saying...
    Sylvan Might: OK. Wait, shouldn't this be Bounty of the Hunt? This should be Bounty of the Hunt.
    Mindless Automaton: Haha, I remember this thing. But what's it doing here?
    Thornweald Archer: Sure. I, for one, welcome the rule of our new elven overlords.
    Faithless Looting: Good. Fits the Flashback theme too, but this is a strong card by itself.
    Ticking Gnomes: No.
    Xantid Swarm: Yes.
    Yavimaya Enchantress: Good. Enchantress theme in this set, but like I said, they need new cards to be good, not reprints.
    Fervent Cathar: Nice. I know it wouldn't be like any traditional version, but some sort of Sligh exists in this pile of cards and it could work quite well.
    Flame Jab: You're not Lightning Bolt either.
    Jungle Hollow: Seriously?
    Ghitu Slinger: Sure. Another efficient red card for a Sligh deck.
    Thornwood Falls: Like, the people who will actually buy this set are people know which dual lands are good and which dual lands are crap.
    Swiftwater Cliffs: These ones are crap. You put the crap lands in the set with all the good cards. It's like you're trying to make people mad.
    Dismal Backwater: I know the original duals are on the Reserved List, but there are plenty of other better options.
    Honden of Infinite Rage: Casual card deckbuilding contest idea. Shrines. Go. No, wait. We'd all just make Replenish decks.
    Rugged Highlands: Way to kill the mood with these spoilers. Everyone's all excited to see great cards, and then here come ten lands that suck.
    Blossoming Sands: These were printed back-to-back in Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged. Those sets weren't that long ago. We don't need reprints yet.
    Scoured Barrens: And everyone hated these lands when they were in those sets too!
    Wind-Scarred Crag: Back to back! A cycle of ten lands no one wants (except Limited players). How was that a good idea?
    Keldon Champion: Not bad. Sligh keeps looking better.
    Bloodfell Caves: Really doubling down on the mistake, aren't we? Just give us Evolving Wilds again or something. Don't waste ten slots on an insult.
    Tranquil Cove: Seriously, I have so many playsets of these stupid things.
    Keldon Marauders: Good. This is a good card.
    Kird Ape: Zoo may have been driven out of Legacy, but it lives on in Eternal Masters. No Wild Nacatl, though.
    Mogg Fanatic: A mediocre card that was once a staple. The greatest casualty of the M10 rules changes. Even Morphling fared better.
    Mogg War Marshal: Good. At this point, there aren't enough unspoiled slots for goblins to compete with elves or even come close, but this is a very, very strong card for goblins decks.
    Orcish Oriflamme: Wait, what? Why? Not remotely playable. Even the Alpha version would be a bit of a letdown. OK, that's a lie. If they'd reprinted the Alpha version of this card, it would Oracle previous versions to fit, which would be hilarious.
    Pyrokinesis: Good. Again, Sligh is looking nice in this set. They could have just reprinted the entire original pitch cycle from Alliances. The only one that isn't all that strong is Scars of the Veteran, and even that card is decent.
    Reckless Charge: Good. The red in this set is actually kind of scary.
    Seismic Stomp: Hm, not my first choice, but it plays well with the other cards in this set.
    Siege-Gang Commander: Excellent. Another great goblin. Still too little, too late, but let's focus on the positive, which is that this card is bonkers.
    Stingscourger: Uh, nice. Another very strong goblin card. They saved them until almost the end, but the set does have a kind of partial goblins theme.
    Tooth and Claw: Interesting. I'm used to seeing this card in a combo engine. Off the top of my head, I don't know of such an engine in this set, but I haven't taken a close look yet.
    Undying Rage: OK. It's no Rancor, but it's decent.

    And finally, the 249th card spoiled is...

    Young Pyromancer: Well, it's one of the most powerful creatures of all time. A staple in both Vintage and Legacy. It absolutely makes sense to reprint it here. A bit odd to conclude spoilers with a big wave of red cards that aren't particularly hard to get already, but whatever.
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    On the whole...

    1. This lived up to expectations. Elsewhere, I've seen other people upset that certain chase rares aren't in this set (Liliana of the Veil being most prominent). This is out of proportion to what we actually did get, and those players will always be able to find something to complain about.
    2. Limited-focused players are very excited for this set, but they're excited for every set, to the point that their reaction is meaningless.
    3. Besides having every Standard set release specifically tailored to them, Limited players are getting another Conspiracy product this year. I honestly couldn't care less if the draft experience in this set was garbage if that meant making the set more useful for Eternal formats. Now, the set wasn't ruined by draft chaff, but it could have been better.
    4. No Dark Ritual. :(
    5. Agreed with Melkor. I hope this becomes a regular thing. If they do this right, they could gradually make Legacy more accessible without smashing the secondary market, because apparently they care about the secondary market for some reason.
    6. Finally reprinting FoW, Mana Crypt (which I'd never have expected), Karakas, Sneak Attack, and a few of these other cards sends a strong message that they are up for reprinting cards that have become inflated due to old, low print runs that don't line up with today's demand. This is a huge step in the right direction and I hope to see more of the same.
    7. This is easily the best reprint-based release ever and is probably the Magic product with the highest average power level ever (ignoring some special preconstructed sealed products like From the Vault boxes and the Modern Event Deck). I love it.
    8. The Reserved List is still the looming problem here, at least for Legacy (and, to a lesser extent, Commander). Vintage is its own weird beast and takes some figuring out. For Legacy, they can reprint the non-Reserved staples and still have problems with...
    -All ten original dual lands (Tundra, Scrubland, Plateau, Savannah, Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Tropical Island, Badlands, Bayou, Taiga).
    -Candelabra of Tawnos is a niche card from Antiquities.
    -Some niche cards from Legends: The Abyss, Chains of Mephistopheles, Eureka (fringe), Moat (fringe), Nether Void, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
    -Cards from Alliances that aren't a big problem now, but could eventually spike from demand: Helm of Obedience, Phyrexian Devourer.
    -Cards from Mirage that have already gone out of control due to being Legacy playable: Lion's Eye Diamond, Phyrexian Dreadnought.
    -Cards from Tempest that might not be going crazy quite yet, but which totally could in some circumstances: Aluren, Cursed Scroll, Intuition, Meditate (and Earthcraft if it were unbanned, which it should be).
    -Cards from Stronghold that have already become inflated due to the Reserved List: Mox Diamond, Volrath's Stronghold. Dream Halls isn't too crazy yet, but could get there too. Sliver Queen is borderline playable at best, but is massively inflated and will be kept high indefinitely with Commander.
    -In Exodus City of Traitors is a Legacy staple inflated by the Reserved List. Mind Over Matter and Recurring Nightmare are borderline playable and could explode if circumstances changed. Survival of the Fittest is kept down by being banned. Like Earthcraft, it would shoot up in price if unbanned).
    -A few cards from Urza's block. Mostly it's Gaea's Cradle, Time Spiral, Grim Monolith, and Metalworker. There are some borderline cases in there too: Serra's Sanctum, Palinchron, and Academy Rector.
    ...most of those cards being niche cards for specific decks, which is good. But it's still a problem and the dual lands are a huge issue. Can't have Legacy without them and can't bring prices down without reprints.
    9. Really, you guys, this set has so many cool cards!
    10. The artwork is hit-or-miss, but some of the new pieces are gorgeous.

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